Who's to Blame for the Mess in Iraq?

Sure, just as soon as you can admit Bush owns the mess in Iraq, you cannot yell about Dems supporting him in creating the mess then ignore the actions of the Repubs yourself.

 

The inconvenient truth is, we'd all be better off if we'd left Saddam and his boyz in place. They had nothing to do with Al Queda or 9/11 and they kept the religious whackos in their place.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant

 

Who gives a flying monkies butt if there is or is not a mess in Iraq, the important thing is that our objectives have been met, and our interests are being protected and even expanded.

 

It's like this, folks....America has been screwing around with Iran and Iraq for over 60 years....we've backed and supported despots and dictators in both countries, and then act like butter wouldn't melt in our mouths when the crap hits the fan. Now, our venerable chickens have come home to roost, and we don't like it.

And it's all about the oil, people. Our military/industrial leadership via their political flunkies don't give two cents about the people in that region beyond how they serve the bottom line....which is to maintain a "stability" in the oil pricing/supplying game.

Oh, and for the record....NO, we are not fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them over here. Neither Al Qaeda, ISIS or any similar group(s) has a standing army, air force, navy, or ICBM's comparable with the USA. So unless you have another major cluster f**k of security/defense breakdown like we had on 9/11/01, America is NOT going fall to fanatical Islamic extremist.

Get real, get educated people. Don't believe the hype.

 

I never said I approve of what went on under GWB. But constantly hearing that today's democratic party had absolutely no part to play in authorizing the use of force is partisan bs.

Blame Bush? Fine, for the first year or two... At this point though, Barry owns the ISIS plague that's sweeping across the ME. This would of been easily avoided by leaving 10 to 15k troops behind that would rotate.

 

Who cares about them? It's not our job to spend our money to fix things for them. if those rapes are stll happening and the middle east is less in need of US intervention, BETTER FOR US.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5FaMbnINwc Hubris exposes all of it, and for who the blame goes to.

 

I agree on everything you said but I'm aiming to do rid the myth that everything was ok before us. (*)(*)(*)(*)hole was always a (*)(*)(*)(*)hole.

 

Putting the blame where the blame is deserved isn't obsession, it's stating the facts.

You can try to shift the blame away from Bush, but he's the one that ordered the invasion. There was no formal declaration of war by Congress.

Bush is responsible for the invasion of Iraq and the subsequent disaster that follows.

 

Sorry, 2006 when they were founded.

 

Except that they would have been under the possibility of being arrested and put on trial in Iraqi courts which is unacceptable not to mention that we simply cannot not and should not remain there forever.

 

Yet another reason why waging war on Iraq and installing a puppet Shia ruler led to ISIS.

 

Wouldn't a Messiah like Barry be able to negotiate (isn't that what he's known for?) a SOFA for the very troops that he commands? Are you assuming he's incompetent when it comes to getting his way? I'd beg to differ, then again Al Maliki isn't a GOP politician who's all too happy to let Barry have his way with him.

Either way, Iraq was stable when Barry decided that all troops are leaving there come hell or high water to satisfy his fringe, cook, lunatic base that think our military should be learning how to bake cookies instead of kicking ass and taking names.

And they would not "remain there forever", that's what rotations are for. We still have bases in Germany and Japan do we not?

 

I (we ALL) care about those people but get real .. the number SH gassing deaths and crimes of the sons PALE in comparison to those innocents WE are guilty of killing, maiming & DISPLACING aka another mil or two.

We must add to our thanks to Bushlandian Neocons = AQ in Iraq.

You know, the original beheadings which then formed a prototype for ISIS who weren't there prior to the invasion?

Meh .. you don't get it, be a Krauthammer and blame O.

You apologists need at some point to get real & if so? .. thanks in advance!

 

Maliki is a Shia who spent much of his life in Iran.. What sort of moron would help put him in power in Iraq??

 

So are we to believe that the majority of the Iraqi people preferred to live under the dictatorial rule of Saddam and his murdering sons, rather than in the democracy that was given to them in a stabilized nation as GW Bush left it, and Obama tried to take credit for? Do you really think that ISIS would have DARED invade Iraq if Obama had left a military presence there to safeguard against just such an occurrence, AS EVERY ONE OF HIS ADVISORS RECOMMENDED? An invading convoy driving through the deserts of Iraq could have been wiped out with ONE FIGHTER JET with NO RISK TO ANYONE ELSE if Obama hadn't been such a wimp! That nation could have been the model of democracy and stability throughout the region, WITH LITTLE ADDITIONAL EFFORT! How is it that we were able to secure the democracies of Germany, Italy, Japan, and So. Korea by maintaining military bases there for decades, and KNEW the same thing could have been done in Iraq, and yet give it all up instead? Obama has the deaths of tens of thousands of innocents on his hands, and many thousands more to come over his remaining year and a half in office!

 

Personally Margot, i find misogyny sad .. yet entertaining!

"Big Boys"? Ick

Don't reply or he'll likely become even more creepy & obnoxious.

 

Don't be silly.. Iraq was NEVER stable.... Why do you think NONE of the oil majors bid on concession agreements?

Iraq's "stability" was just another neocon lie.

 

The same moron (and his Secretary of State who served in Vietnam) who is doing everything he can to give Iran nuclear weapons while they scream "death to America!" And that Israel's right to exist is "not negotiable"

Have you guessed who that moron is that you chose so poorly to deflect to??

Are you saying (by your deflection and silence) that the great Messiah himself could not have negotiated a SOFA with Almaliki because he's a Shia who spent much of his life in Iran??

 

Afghanistan has nothing to do with Iraq .

I realize that Bush and Cheney worked hard to confuse you on that topic, but there it is!

 

I guess you believe that they preferred being bombed into submission for months then succumbing to a brutal occupation.

 

Bush, Obama, whomever, the question is what are we going to do about it? Why are we so concentrating so much on whom to blame instead of what to do to fix the dang thing?

The thing here is we, the United States have only one president at a time. Bush can be held accountable for Iraq for everything there up to 20 January 2009. Then the mantle passed on to President Obama. As of that date he became accountable. Bush could do nothing to influence a thing past January of 2009, the current president could and still can.

Perhaps one needs to ask how strong ISIS was as of 20 January 2009? As of that date, Libya was stable, so too Syria, Iraq iffy. Iran was and is Iran.

But this blame game, it reminds of two men watching their house burn down to the ground. Each is arguing with the other about who is to blame for the house fire instead of trying or seeing what could be done to put it out and save the house.

That House is Iraq and ISIS as of today.

 

What's with all the logic fallacy on this forum ?

 

You're being too kind. In both cases the war was started and amplified under false pretenses. In both cases our government (in the form of our elected leaders) lied to us. In both cases there is the strong smell of cronyism and enriching one's business buddies. In both cases the American People paid for those wars in money and in blood.

Well, if they were ever our "enemy", their opinion doesn't matter. However I claim (as we both do, probably) that the Iraqi people were never our enemy.

My logic on this goes as follows - this is not a partisan thing. Behind the partisan see-saw there is the guiding hand of our defense establishment and our foreign policy establishment. This is true because both Bush and Obama behave the same way, when it comes to nation-building and intervening in foreign affairs and trying to "promote democracy". This stuff is not a partisan thing, it comes out of the think tanks, and both parties seem to think it's a good idea (in their current incarnation anyway).

The people really to blame for all this are the vaunted power elite in the most hallowed halls of the shadow government. The people behind the people, the people who "influence" people like the president (whomever s/he may be at the time). And, truth be told, they're behaving rather stupidly, and they've been behaving rather stupidly, and frankly it's getting to the point where it's no longer acceptable. This stuff is costing us way too much, and I no longer give these clowns permission to dink around in foreign countries at my expense. They're screwing up, is the point. They've screwed up badly ever since they took control (which according to my read of history takes place squarely in the time frame of the Kennedy assassination). But now they've gone beyond the mistaken and into the sublimely stupid.

This upcoming election is going to be very important. It looks like the power elite is giving us a choice between another Clinton and another Bush. Well.... hidden behind that choice, is this: people (including me) have been accusing Hillary of being Lyndon Johnson in drag, and guess who Jeb Bush said his political idol is? Lyndon Johnson! So the real choice is between Lyndon Johnson and Lyndon Johnson.

The power elite are shoving Lyndon Johnson up our butts.

Are you feeling me on this?