Why are Progressives ignoring overpopulation?

Discussion in 'Environment & Conservation' started by Anders Hoveland, Apr 25, 2012.

  1. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Overpopulation is the biggest threat to the environment (not to mention poverty and unemployment).

    So why is it that progressives are doing almost nothing about the high fertility rates in the world?
    They say having fewer children is important — but that is all — it is just words. Do you really think all those people in India or Africa are going to stop having so many children just because you are telling them? And where are all the campaigns and advertising telling them to not to have so many babies? Progressives are doing nearly nothing about this problem! It is almost as if they actually want more people, but then want everyone to be forced to accept lower standard of living, to "do their part" for the environment.

    Some readers here might make the argument that this is all in other countries, and there is nothing you can do. But these peoples children will come as immigrants into the developed countries, as all that overpopulation is creating poverty that is displacing people from the countries with high fertility rates into the countries with lower fertility rates. So if these people have a right to enter into our countries as immigrants, we should also have a right to intervene in the countries from which they are coming from, to promote lower fertility rates.

     
  2. fifthofnovember

    fifthofnovember Well-Known Member

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    Developed nations should mind their own business in this regard. If people in third world nations want to die of starvation and plague so that they can screw more, then let them. We should just make sure that their foolishness doesn't affect us, by limiting immigration. It's not like those countries are using up our resources. Not if we don't let them, anyway.
     
  3. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    But after the people in these other countries churn out more babies than they know what to do with, progressives with "caring hearts" are going to tell us that all these grown-up babies have a right to live in my country. So it is one or the other; either force the rest of the world to have fewer children, or agree that outside people have absolutely no right to enter into my country. You cannot have it both ways.

    Honestly, how are we going to defend the environment in our own country otherwise? Look at all the horrible deforestation in India and Africa. And all the rainforest being cut down in Brazil and Indonesia. No one is going to give a care about the environment if everyone becomes poor. Why do you think the Baltic countries dump their untreated sewage and agricultural runoff into the Baltic Sea?
    [​IMG]
     
  4. leftysergeant

    leftysergeant New Member

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    I don't know how it is in your benighted corner of the world, but here in the USA, progressives have for decades pushed for contraception education measures to be included in any aid programs we finance abroad.

    It is usually the right-wing ignorance mongers like Bush the Lesser who get such measures stripped out or watered down with such stupidity as pushing for Ignorance Only sex education.
     
  5. Orygyn

    Orygyn New Member

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    In the past we had tons of children because many didn't survive their own childhood. Modern medicine has changed that in developed countries. In developing countries, similar problems persist due to poverty and poor living conditions. In developed countries, lack of contraception, certain religious beliefs encouraging having children, and relative poverty contribute to large families. If we don't work towards sorting these problems, making them do anything will have no effect. The problem is that developed nations consume at unsustainable levels. Everyone in the world could not be brought to the same level, we simply don't have the resources. We should do what we can and encourage people to have small families, but we must be realistic about the outcomes of what we try so that our strategies are intelligent.
     
  6. Jiggs Casey

    Jiggs Casey New Member

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    Agreed. This thread is really a complete non-starter.

    I'm a progressive, and one who works with uncountable numbers of fellow progressives... and to a man, I've yet to encounter a single associate who doesn't acknowledge that population is the No. 1 problem facing mankind.

    It's the religious cons who want big families.

    Anders, it's an accepted forum protocol to actually provide a link when you quote others' work. Where's yours?

    Here, I'll help you out...

    http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/overpopulation-is-main-threat-to-planet-521925.html

    Your link is from 2006, and it doesn't support your thread premise at all. In fact, it says nothing about "progressives." So why don't you do better and provide some literature that supports your claim that progressives are "ignoring population" concerns? Try and find something that's not from some crazy RW rag, thanks.
     
  7. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Oxford Prof: Overpopulation Root Of All Planet's Problems...
    :tears:
    Stephen Emmott: overpopulation is at the root of all the planet's troubles
    Saturday 14 July 2012 - Science has not shouted out about unchecked human expansion; now, one professor will proclaim its dangers on stage
     
  8. Roy L

    Roy L Banned

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    No, ignorance -- like yours -- is.
    ?? Excuse me? It has been PROGRESSIVES who have led the way on reducing fertility, from sex education to abortion rights to female literacy education to advocating for contraceptive availability. It is CONSERVATIVES who have resisted those initiatives.

    Every informed person knows these facts. You are therefore either an ignoramus or a liar.
    Lie. See above.
    They are deciding to have fewer children for their own reasons, and progressives are enabling them to do so.
    Again, that is an absurd lie.
    And we do... except when stupid, ignorant, hypocritical CONSERVATIVES stop us.
     
  9. waltky

    waltky Well-Known Member

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    Granny says is all dem Chineses fault...
    :grandma:
    UN Says New Measures Needed to Address Asia Population Issues
    August 26, 2012 — The chief of the U.N. Population Fund (UNFPA) is calling for Asia governments to give higher priority to women’s development programs. Babatunde Osotimehin says countries should address increasing population concerns with what he called "foresight and justice".
     
  10. bobgnote

    bobgnote New Member

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    The Earth won't have 7.107 billion of us, by 2030.

    Gentlepersons' bets, up. Will the Earth have MORE or LESS human population, by 2030? By 2040? By 2050?

    By 2100? (I betcha it's LESS, by 2100)
     
  11. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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  12. Casper

    Casper Banned at Members Request Past Donor

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    Well said and so very true.
     
  13. Anders Hoveland

    Anders Hoveland Banned

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    Maybe conservatives are just against the abortion side of it? I do not really know much about this, but I just cannot imagine anyone (at least in a developed country like the USA) would be against condoms and birth control pills. I do know there are some Catholics in the USA though... do Catholics tend to vote for the Republican or Democrat Party?
     
  14. Artificialimagination

    Artificialimagination New Member

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    I couldn't agree with you more. While I'd probably call myself a progressive, I feel my government in the Australian Parliament is failing on this topic and other potentially catastrophic events. Both major parties in our parliament are preferencing each other for votes at the polls now, and constantly debate incredibly similar populist agendas which predict endless economic growth, promoting themselves as having more effective policies on "illegal immigration" by boat and a new useless "Carbon Tax" rather than debating these real issues.

    The simple fact is that these politicians probably won't be around to see the effects of overpopulation. They won't suffer for poor-decision making and political ignorance.

    I'd say that a worldwide two-child policy would be an effective, but a highly expensive way to try and prevent overpopulation. It would also lead to a loss of freedoms for women and the young alike as China-esque forced abortions, etc. take place. I don't see another way however.

    People in the West need to start living smaller so we can conserve resources for a difficult future in the meantime. Governments need to start caring about their people and their futures. If these trends continue the world's resources will run out soon, as unlike population the amount of resources doesn't grow exponentially, and then we will have to revert to Social Darwinism and will see mass-starvation on a global scale. Not too optimistic a future for me at age 15.
     
  15. Max Frost

    Max Frost New Member

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    More by 2030, probably more by 2040, less by 2050. Projection is at the rate population is growing it would be 9 billion by 2050. Don't think we will ever see that as even 7 billion is more than the planet can sustain for any length of time. But who knows exactly when all this puts our environment and resources over the tipping point where the big reduction is forced on us by nature. We really do need to set aside the old belief systems that make it difficult for us to rationally encourage population control, but personally I think that is unlikely. We will just keep growing and growing and growing until nature says enough.

    Great site on the subject here.
    http://www.worldpopulationbalance.org/index.php
     
  16. philipkdick

    philipkdick New Member

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    Earlier there was a thread attacking those who warned about this and a particular target was Paul R Ehrlich who wrote a book titled 'The Population Bomb' forty five years ago. We have had plenty of warning about this. I agree with those who are saying that the current world population is unsustainable let alone any more growth. Ehrlich is still very much alive and still working on the issue. He is a progressive.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich
     
  17. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't get it, what's the policy progressives have that leads to high fertility rates?
     
  18. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    we are doing something - we are pro-choice
     
  19. Bowerbird

    Bowerbird Well-Known Member

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    Since a lot of overpopulation has to do with religious banning methods of birth control we could always just forcibly remove certain religious leaders
     
  20. wist43

    wist43 New Member

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    I don't think "progressives" are ignoring "over- population"... they are effectively killing how many thousands of Africans every day? In China, how many abortions? infanticide? executions?

    The environmental movement inandof itself has to account for a staggering numbers of deaths in Africa every day due to poverty and a lack of electricity that is foisted upon them by "progressive", western elites - I don't know why anyone would think "progressives" aren't doing everything in their power to kill as many people as possible.

    As for me on my small slice of land - keep your condoms and your perversions to yourself. I don't need anyone prematurely sexualizing my children by teaching them how to put condoms on bananas at 8 years old. Some of us are perfectly capable of raising our children to be responsible, respectful adults/citizens.
     

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