Why did Trump collaborate with the Russian government?

You can't even make your own point effectively.

Obama did visit several countries as a candidate in 2008. His appearances were well publicized and very public.

He did not have campaign operatives sneaking around in hotels in out of the way capitals meeting with cuts outs and surrogates for foreign governments. Trump did.

Obama did not have a close associate propose to the security service of a rival government that a secret back channel be set up using that country's security services. Trump did ......twice.

In no other presidental campaign in the history of the United States is there anything even remotely like the pattern of regular communication, obvious coordination and likely collusion with agents of a rival power.

This is unique to Trump. You will not be able to come up with a single instance involving anything remotely like it.

 

Still waiting on evidence, just as surely as Don is still waiting on Nieto's check for The Wall.

 

I don't think either one of you are.

Trump has no particular loyalty to government. He has no personal integrity at all. And no moral compass.

In Trump's world, whatever gets him where he's going is good.

In the past, this involved all sorts of shady behavior in real estate. He left it up to his lawyers to clean up the mess afterwards.

He still operates that way.

He has been in bed with Russian oligarchs and money launderers for over a decade now.

This wasn't political. No one in Manhattan would lend him any money. They knew he was a cheat and didn't pay his bills. He was a very very bad risk.

So, in order to keep his real estate holdings solvent, he found himself in the company of these shady money laundering types.

They own him.

 

Prove any of those negatives.

You don't know what Obama campaign members did or did not do.

Like I said before no campaign has ever gotten this kind of colonoscopy for foreign contacts so we don't know what normal is.

 

When you do business with the Mafia (whether it be Russian or Sicilian)...they own you.
That's a big part of why so few American companies DO business in Russia.

Trump did a lot of business in and with Russians...and lied about it

 

"I have had dealings over the years where I sold a house to a very wealthy Russian many years ago. I had the Miss Universe pageant — which I owned for quite a while — I had it in Moscow a long time ago. But other than that, I have nothing to do with Russia," Trump said.


Trump specifically said he has no investments or loans in or from Russia.

 

That's because no campaign has ever even considered anything as stupid, irresponsible and problematic as regular coordination with agents of a foreign government.

I won't bother with you on this.

Trying to pretend Trump's behavior and the rogues gallery of shady and reckless characters is normal is just ridiculous.

But you're reduced to doing just that. Trying to condone what you can't refute. Elsewhere, we see Trumpsters justfiying and defending being useful idiots for Russian bots.

 

And you have no reason to believe they did anything anything morr nefarious than lieing about a legal meeting.

My point was made on facts, not fantasies and conspiracy theories.

 

Given the amount of evidence in the public domain showing multiple instances of collaboration the burden is on you to dispute them.

 

Nothing here changes the fact he overtly and dishonestly tried to pass his prejudiced opinion as fact.
Feel free to show otherwise.

 

I wonder too. Like, why did Flynn lie when he knew damn well, having been in intel, that the FBI had his conversations in front of them? And, the lies were not about collusion, but other things. Personally, I see this kind of deal, as entrapment. All it takes is a one slip of memory and you just lied to the feds. Get one thing wrong, and bingo! You lied to the feds. Flynn is not stupid. I bet if I had one of your recorded conversations, waited awhile and then interrogated you on what you said awhile back, and you were a really busy guy, talking to loads of people, I could get you for lying to me. I know I could. For perfect memories are rare. Especially if you had a horde of conversations with many people.

So, perhaps they were hiding nothing. But you want them to hide something, and so you dismiss any reason for getting caught in a lie, except a lie which would mean collusion. Scooter Libby was caught in a lie. How did that happen? And not a lie covering up criminal activity either. Just lying to the feds. The lie does not even have to concern the reason for being investigated, did you even know that? lol

 

Again a statement you cannot prove or disprove. We don't know what a normal amount of contacts is. You have established no baseline. You can't claim something is abnormal without first establishing a normal baseline.

 

That is not accurate, one cannot be charged with lying under oath or lying to investigators unless said lie is material for the outcome of the legal proceeding. Also, arranging a campaign meeting with a foreign government official to gather stolen information on a political opponent is most definitely illegal

 

On this thread the primary tactic used by Trumpians is to ignore reality. In light of considerable evidence, their main argument is there isn't any. It's funny, really. Their primary weapon is their own ignorance.

 

Umm no. Any lie to investigators is illegal. And all the meetings in question have been absolutely legal.

 

We've given Syria to Russia. We do nothing when Russia supports North Korea and Iran. Aggression in Ukraine is all but forgotten. Trump still insists there was no collusion and that Russian interference in our election is a Democratic hoax.

Want more? I got lots. Trump is Putin's puppet. If you opened your eyes, you could see that. Instead, you have this mindless loyalty to Trump.

 

Does Hillary still beat her wife?

 

Oh BS Russia has been in Syria and has been a Syrian Ally damn near as long as I've been alive. The reason for that's obvious and it has little to do with Trump. The only collusion was between the Deep State and Russia. You've got nothing beyond wishful thinking and a deep and abiding hatred of Trump

 

That is not accurate, perjury is when one purposefully tries to mislead a legal proceeding by telling a court or investigator something that isn’t true. If the lie is not material to the outcome of the legal proceeding, then it is not a crime. The key word for the untruthful remark being a crime is that which is considered material matter, if the lie is not material matter, then it is not a crime

Perjury is the intentional act of swearing a false oath or falsifying an affirmation to tell the truth, whether spoken or in writing, concerning matters material to an official proceeding.[1][A]Contrary to popular misconception, no crime has occurred when a false statement is (intentionally or unintentionally) made while under oath or subject to penalty. Instead, criminal culpability attaches only at the instant the declarant falsely asserts the truth of statements (made or to be made) that are material to the outcome of the proceeding. For example, it is not perjury to lie about one's age except if age is a fact material to influencing the legal result, such as eligibility for old age retirement benefits or whether a person was of an age to have legal capacity.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury

Furthermore, this notion that it is legal for campaign officials to make arrangements with foreign officials to gather information on their political opposition which was attained by illegal means is downright dumb. No, that is definitely not a legal practice for campaign officials by any measure of the law

 

A

Our leaders are supposed to talk with other countries, that is neither illegal nor collusion.Anybody can make "Allegations"; you pick those you like and call them evidence. How convenient...However-

You are assuming facts not in evidence; standard leftist/socialist/communist policy. Does not reflect well on you, but nothing new there either.

The real question is why the left is lying about it and obsessed with burying truth with Bull S***. Therein lies the crimes.

 

You confuse possible evidence with proof; you confuse your prejudiced presuppositions with fact.

 

You clearly have not been listening. First line of defense for Trumpians -- ignore the truth.

A great deal of reality has been shown on this thread. You have ignored every bit of it. It's probably an intelligence issue.

 

No, you are. Proof is what is presented by prosecutor in a trial. Evidence is what I and others have presented on this thread.

 

It is true. The Republican Congressional committees have been dragging their feet in presenting their findings. The secret testimonies at the countless secret hearings remain a secret. Consequently, Trump apologists argue there is no evidence of collaboration, obstruction of justice, or money laundering. It is called a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That will will all change when Mueller submits his report. He is closing in on Trump, and, next up, is the questioning of Trump himself.

"However, we have found all kinds of Russian, United Kingdom collusion on the Democrat side, both in the Clinton campaign and the DNC." Really? Provide that evidence. All I have heard is rhetoric and speculation. I repeat, provide that evidence.

Conspiracy between the Obama administration and the Clinton campaign? That is ludicrous. They belong to the same party. Clinton was going to carry on Obama's legacy. Of course, they worked together. You call that a conspiracy? What a stupid statement.

 

This OP has at least 3 threads like this that are all fake news. You could bet the farm is there was a connection between Trump and the Russians it would have come out long ago