Why do we have so much off shoring of jobs?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by dnsmith, Jun 29, 2016.

  1. Checkerboard Strangler

    Checkerboard Strangler Active Member

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    Of course it can compete.
    The London School PDF offered by dnsmith makes the perfect case for it.
    Now, the fact that the London School makes no value judgment on the quality of replacement "tasks" that develop here for "native" workers is telling.
    They're not interested in that sort of judgment, they just wanted to crunch the numbers but if one solves for "L" in Table 2 and in all subsequent tables where L is the "task" one quickly finds that these tasks are not careers or even full time jobs, they are "gigs", something usually doled out to temp employment agencies, or they are "assignments", as in temporary "train your replacement" jobs which only exist for the duration of the transition to outsource completion.
    Ahh but the London School only wanted sum totals, not value for exchange.

    Therefore, if we are willing to settle for "McJobs", temp labor and the nomadic gypsy lifestyle necessary to sweep the country in pursuit of these gigs, we're all set.
    Clearly we will all be able to afford to send Junior to a university on that type of wage.
    Oh.....wait... :(
     
  2. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Obamacare, the new Consumer safety regulations, EPA harassment of landowners and businesses.

    Why stay when government is aggressively trying to run you off. Business goes where it is wanted. Money goes where it is welcome. No government or politician will be able to stop the process. Authoritarians like Chavez in Venezuela look at business as a chicken to be plucked. As they have discovered, they killed the golden goose.
     
  3. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So what about those Japanese, Korean, German car companies who have built plants here. What about Siemens, Nestle and other foreign corporations (their names are all on buildings throughout North Texas where all the smart companies are coming after having been run out of the People's Republic of California) that brought manufacturing and good jobs here to the US. Did they "outsource" jobs to the cheap American labor market?
     
  4. JoakimFlorence

    JoakimFlorence Banned

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    Because the leadership in both Parties decided Free Trade and Globalization were a good thing, even though a lot of the voters—on both the left and right—disagreed.

    I don't think there is any partisan issue that reaches across Party lines like Free Trade does.
     
  5. ChristopherABrown

    ChristopherABrown Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, a paper doesn't give an overview of what is available to the citizens. There are far less skilled people now in all areas that have to do with everyday life.

    It is collusion between government education and corporations. Fortunately many small business owners saw it coming and started their own shops where at least some skilled technicians can be found. Getting parts is a pain tho. The young people employed at the dealerships etc. know very little and have even less experience.

    As far as things of a "more complex nature", they are basically a joke for ordinary citizens. Corporations may benefit tho. If I didn't have some 15 year old computers with 25 year old software, I wouldn't be able to do some of the work I do.
     
  6. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    If a person cannot achieve their full potential in the USA...they are failures!
     
  7. Checkerboard Strangler

    Checkerboard Strangler Active Member

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    What in GOD'S NAME are you sputtering about?
    Do you do this so that you sound like AM radio talk show hosts who don't even verify their spew because their audience won't either?

    SIEMENS has FIFTY-SEVEN California locations, so many that to list them all here would exceed the character count limit.
    http://www.usa.siemens.com/en/about_us/locations.htm

    Nestle has six major bottling operations, one central warehouse and two water sources in California.
    https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?mid=1K7_vhSQ66aH29hoy3CanjSgIZko&hl=en_US

    The companies leaving California, good riddance to them...they're being replaced, slowly at first, now at more brisk pace, by partners who have no problem being good citizens of the community rather than just wealth extractors.
    Eighty percent of the new jobs created in Texas are at or near minimum wage. You are welcome to them.

    CaliforniaBusinessNEW.jpg

    For each year since 1976, California's pace of new business creation has been faster than the U.S. rate, and often faster than Texas.
    The rate of business formation (and business closure) in California has slowed over the last decade, but that mirrors a similar decline for the U.S. overall.

    California has a very high tech workforce, with people who have Master's degrees, Ph.D.'s and significant industry leading experience that is not easily found outside of very dense Pacific Rim environments, and it's hard to replace that with religiously educated simpletons who think that the Earth is six thousand years old, that "Jesus wrote the Constitution", and that the Federal Government is the big enemy out East .
    Talk about uncertainty, I sure wouldn't want to headquarter in a place which, at any given moment, is preparing to secede from the country and declare war on the government.

    Texas has been committing acts of war on California ever since the Enron Electricity Crisis of 2000/2001.
    Eventually all of that is going to backfire on the Lone Star State when enough people get sick of handing out federal aid every time the place floods or gets wiped out by a rash of twisters, with Texas governors holding one hand out for taxpayer relief while holding the secession flag in the other.
    And now Texas is mulling over the "Texit" which while not pure secession, represents the Lone Star version of the Brexit.

    Yeah, that's a real comfort for new startups! :roflol:

    Go...please...go NOW, and take Louisiana and Mississippi with you when you go.
     
  8. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    California doesn't mind "exporting" its "sweatshop labor" jobs.
     
  9. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    We welcome Toyota, Jamba Juice, Jacobs Engineering headquarters here to North Texas having fled the oppressive tax, regulatory and insanity environment in California. Unfortunately, some of our politicians are talking about a choo choo to nowhere like Cali is now quietly considering abandoning after the proposed costs have at least doubled.

    Say, how is the median price of housing affordability index going in Cali these days? I understand its kind of tough for middle class families to afford a house these days. NIMBY attitudes toward building make prices go up faster than ordinary folks ability to pay.

    And the highway infrastructure that used to be so great... Understand the politicians are trying to get ya'all out of your cars into mass transit. Oh, and those fishies that the lefties demanded saving by releasing water downstream in the midst of a drought, how are they doing? That water supply system that was designed to serve 20 million 40 years or so ago and was stopped from expansion by the lunatic envirowackos still doing gangbusters now that the population has doubled thanks to the millions of illegal aliens you folks are paying to live among your "sanctuary cities". Last time I was there, in Irvine I played golf at Strawberry Fields course in Irvine. For the $160 I paid, I could have played 3 or 4 better courses here in DFW for the same money - but the weather was nice. I did also play Arroyo Trabuco in Mission Viejo. $75 for an OK course no better than many here at $50 - but the weather was nice.

    As to Enron screwing California? The envirowacko energy policy that said Cali didn't want any of those nasty smelly electrical plants, that they would buy their energy from locales that foolishly would bear the burden of the unsightly polluting facilities practically BEGGED shysters to take advantage of that situation. Oh, BTW, has Ivanpah caught on fire again? Roasted a few thousand more eagles and condors in the last few months? Got any more wind farms or Ivanpahs in the works to replace the electricity when Diablo Canyon shuts down? Or has the perpetual motion machine showed promise?

    I admit, the coastal areas have nice weather....so, you've got that and you will receive total consciousness on your deathbeds.

    [video=youtube;X48G7Y0VWW4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X48G7Y0VWW4[/video]
     
  10. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    IT and Customer service jobs are the jobs going now

    those that control the information have the power.... corps have sold us out
     
  11. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    A fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage helps US labor be more competitive.
     
  12. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, if the government evens the playing field it most certainly does

    free trade of course changes that and gives other countries too much control over our economy

    .
     
  13. Pipette8

    Pipette8 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. No environmental laws and labor safety laws is just the icing on the cake IMO. It is the slave labor they want, and they are working feverishly to enslave Americans. That is, of course, why they keep bringing in H1B workers when we have unemployed here. They are pushing wages down. Everyone knows this though. But, it is frustrating. Once they build that huge corridor from southern mexico through to Canada, they will almost have the nail in the coffin of livable wages. Thousands of people will be competing for the same job, and if they are lucky enough to be hired, they will be grateful to work for $5 an hour.
     
  14. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I believe unemployment compensation should be fourteen dollars an hour and can pick up capitalism's slack, by bailing it out, like usual.
     
  15. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    And don't forget that Trump ties are made right here in America. And he spends his money buying golf courses here in America. And he never hires illegal immgrants. So take that you pinko lefties that don't believe that Trump puts America first.
    .
     
  16. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    :wall:
     
  17. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    nothing but fallacy for your Cause?

    why not explain your point of view. i don't mind debating it with you.
     
  18. Checkerboard Strangler

    Checkerboard Strangler Active Member

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    Name ONE construction project of that magnitude where costs don't balloon.
    The old Capital Beltway in Washington-MD-VA, in fact the entire Interstate Highway System itself, the Dallas light rail systems, The Big Dig in New England, BART, not to mention the almost twice annual rehab of the Houston Ship Channel, cost overruns resulting from overly optimistic forecasts is the rule rather than the exception in every large scale construction project.
    But NONE even comes close to the construction projects envisioned by the favorite son of Texas, Halliburton and its subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown and Root.
    Whether it was the cost plagued Johnson Manned Spacecraft Center outside Houston; airbases in Vietnam; a 24-mile causeway across Louisiana's Lake Pontchartrain, or the $2.5 billion Restore Iraqi Oil (RIO) agreement, cost overruns and outright taxpayer theft is the hallmark of this Texas defense contractor giant. RIO was a cost-plus contract for Halliburton to put out oilfield fires and rebuild Iraq's oil infrastructure. It is under this contract that KBR charged infamously high prices to ship gasoline into Iraq.

    Problems that have surfaced are of the jaw-dropping variety--subs charging $100 to wash a 15-pound bag of laundry, and so forth. Especially telling was an October 2004 Pentagon audit of the RIO contract. Out of $875 million in charges it examined, $108 million was deemed "questionable" or "unreasonable." This included Halliburton's claim to have spent $27.5 million to ship to Iraq liquefied gas it had purchased in Kuwait for just $82,100.

    Shall we look into the 45 dollar cheeseburgers fed to our troops, or the KBR built showers which electrocuted our servicemen in Iraq?

    The places where real estate is outrageous are locations which have always been high priced.
    And a real estate boom isn't all bad, if you're looking to move into a better home, you're going to make good money on your old one.
    What's skyrocketing here is skyrocketing everywhere...RENT.
    When we first moved BACK here FROM North Texas three years ago we had to pay 2650 a month for a three bedroom two bath 1300 sq. ft house in Downey built in the Eisenhower administration.
    Well, we've now purchased a 2400 sq ft 4 BR/2BA home in Whittier, just down the road and the mortgage is 2300 a month, bigger house, mortgage cheaper than rent, built in 1996 and conforming to the latest earthquake standards. Safety standards is something Texas scoffs at, by the way.
    When we built our first home in Mansfield we did something that the developers thought was absolutely crazy, although the insurance company loved the idea.
    We installed "TORNADO CLIPS" in the roof beams to tie the roof directly and structurally to the rest of the house so that the roof doesn't fly off in a twister.
    Anywhere else in Tornado Alley this would be a foregone conclusion but our home in Mansfield is the only one in the neighborhood with them installed.


    You sound bitter.
    We just completed a major expansion of the 405, 605 and 105 freeways which can handle the increased traffic, which by the way is a sign of an improving economy.

    You have absolutely ZERO room to talk about bad infrastructure because anyone who has spent an afternoon negotiating the Dallas Mixing Bowl, or Loop 12, or the 635 will tell you it's as bad OR WORSE than L.A. rush hour traffic, and not is it just as bad, it will get worse because Texas DOES NOT expand their freeways like we do.
    Back in the 1970's Houston's freeways were so crowded that it would take an hour to go two exits on the 610 in Houston.
    A city built for a population under a million was suddenly swamped with three million.

    Politicians trying to "get y'all out of your cars into mass transit?"
    Who is "Y'ALL?"
    People like taking the Metro here, it's fast, cheap and convenient.
    Last two times I had meetings in Hollywood I took the Green Line to the Blue Line to the Red Line into Hollywood or the Green and Blue to the Expo Line to Culver City and Santa Monica. It was a three mile drive from Whittier to the Park and Ride lot in Norwalk.

    I think you've moved into fantasy territory now, which is typical for those in the Fox bubble.
    Sorry that the facts don't match your bedtime stories.

    Enjoy your Saudi Arabian summer, that's only gonna get worse as time goes by.
    Oh and, don't forget to leave the pipes open for Throckmorton...I heard the frackers pumped all their potable water out and that "y'all" are helping out.
    That's very Christian of you, or is it?

    http://www.newschannel6now.com/story/21676361/throckmorton-forced-to-use-emergency-pipeline-for-water

    I think we're done here.
    I really find your fact free retorts tiresome...you love Texas, and I love California, none of that is going to change and your view of California is based on hearsay from right wing blogs and talk shows.

    We're doing just fine out here...and our economy is now 5th largest in the WORLD.
     
  19. Checkerboard Strangler

    Checkerboard Strangler Active Member

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    And finally....


    [video=youtube;BtNbMD96xgY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtNbMD96xgY[/video]
     
  20. TBryant

    TBryant Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    This is a good link on an article for the study about off shoring jobs.

    "the study doesn't examine the state of U.S. manufacturing since 2007, when recession-strapped companies increased productivity while reducing employment to squeeze as much out of as few workers as possible. So the link between the "productivity effect" from overseas hiring and new jobs in the United States may have weakened in the last five years." (By Suzy Khimm for the Washington post 2012 ) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...shoring-creates-as-many-u-s-jobs-as-it-kills/

    Overall though I give it a maybe. Classical economist will want to hold on to the idea that all of this is going to work out for the best. The snags are mostly about the real, or false, need for increased productivity and and the futures possible decreasing need for human labor (including educated and skilled).

    If technology ends up lessening mankind's need to provide for itself what will humans do? Of course there are always a portion of humans who will be absolutely necessary but if that portion actually starts to noticeably decrease what will happen?

    My guess is that either the productive part will decide to punish the less productive or there will have to be a new framework for understanding the human condition. If the former happens we will have increasing destabilization and conflict. If the latter happens (a less likely scenario) we must work at a way to level the benefits of human endeavor more evenly more quickly.
     
  21. dnsmith

    dnsmith New Member

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    Your nutshell is wrong. It takes many more $$$ in the US to buy something than it does in the US. Greed to demand more money is what made inflation the most obnoxious economic disaster in the world. One question: why should US labor make so much more than labor in the rest of the world? Or do they? In reality the poor are poor, but 3rd world poor are many times worse off than our relatively poor. The middle class means that a worker has a roof over his family's heads, food to eat, use computers, TVs, and sometimes even owns an automobile.

    All of this determines the wage standard of the country. Its been a long time since I lived in India, but when I left the last time a teachers salary was capped at $200 a month, raised a family, owed a car et al.
     
  22. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I believe we should not have to care how business management, manages their business; once we have a minimum wage at fifteen dollars an hour and unemployment compensation at the equivalent to fourteen dollars an hour, with welfare picking up the rest.

    I agree to no longer complain about that, once that public policy objective, or its equivalent, is enacted.
     
  23. DOconTEX

    DOconTEX Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gee, you sound defensive. Didn't answer about the "sanctuary cities", the borders wide open to illegal aliens, the huge number of them you are supporting with your taxes, including the ones in prison, the ones you are educating, and the ones taking up space in your public hospitals. Looks like you live in one of the higher income coastal regions that are unaffected by the far left governance that has denied water to farmers to save some fishies. I get it. If I had a nice secure job in, say Irvine, Palo Alto, or Mission Viejo and was just living my life in a nice neighborhood, unaffected by the crazy left wing governance except for huge confiscation of the fruits of my earnings to support the porch sitters and envirowacko dreams, maybe I wouldn't notice the rot either. And the weather is really, really nice.

    Maybe, however, some perspective from Historian Victor Davis Hanson, whose family has lived in Cali since the mid 1800s. Mr. Hanson is an historian and college professor who writes frequently about his observations of what has happened to the state in the time of his family's life there. Perhaps he sees another side than the nice weather, the great life in the coastal communities. Is what Mr. Hanson saying untrue? Or does he offer a different perspective of what's happening in Cali than the daily lives of the Coastal elites? https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/california-21st-century-wild-west/?singlepage=true

    Hanson's observations cover decades of transformation. Still sure about how great it is and that the direction Cali is going is sustainable?https://pjmedia.com/victordavishanson/dark-ages-california/

    I think much of the state is Beautiful. From the Sierras to San Diego. And the weather is nice. But the attitudes toward individual liberty, punishing taxes, regulations, lunatic PC tyranny, the crazy restrictions on firearms freedoms the Legislature just got enacted, the buy in to the "global warming" hoax, the protections and invitation to the invasion of illegal aliens lead me to believe the future will be more Mad Max than City on a Hill. Enjoy it while you can. I will stay in the free state of Texas where we still (except for Austin) have a population of logical, self reliant, energetic, people who demand politicians protect our liberty, protect our rights to free speech and freedom of religion, our firearms freedoms the comittment to smaller government, economic liberty, and to the extent possible, our sovereignty from the invasion of illegal aliens. The weather isn't quite as nice, but I'll take the trade off.

     
  24. jdog

    jdog Banned

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    We have offshoring of jobs because we have trade agreements that make it possible for corporations to make goods overseas at low cost and sell them here at high profits. The corporations bought the Federal Government and the government now acts in the interest of the blood sucking corporations instead of the people. They are getting obscenely wealthy exploiting both the overseas labor markets and the domestic retail market to benefit themselves at the expense of American jobs. To hell with the corporations and their greedy immoral management criminals...
     
  25. GeorgiaAmy

    GeorgiaAmy Well-Known Member

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    Most people are primarily self interested.
    Nature makes no case charity and altruism are natural...quite the antithesis.
     

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