why does government get 35% of my investment? after 40% pay and 10% sales? tax?

oh shut up
democrat congress overspent during reagan and reagan still had best economy in 150 years, and hek let to net boom taht allwoed alf aka bill clinton to look good even tho he wasted it

 

All debt are IOU's!! Whether it is the SS fund or bonds sold to people and foreigners, it's all debt with interest and payable on demand or at maturity.

No one ever said avoid debt; you seem to have no problem with paying $450 BILLION per year in debt interest and this number will increase every year we accumulate more debt. You have no problem paying $450 BILLION and getting absolutely nothing in return?

Your Fortune 500 companies do not like paying federal taxes...these companies share in funding the $450 BILLION per year in interest payment which nets industry absolutely nothing...

 

Not exactly, there has to be a clear obligation to pay it back from a different entity to another entity. That is why the IOU's are never considered true debt. It is simply a governmental accounting trick to create a debt that isn't really there. And that was part of the bill in 1964 when SS was expended.

The key is managing the debt, not the amount of such. If you are concentrating on the amount, then I fear you do not understand the value and limitations of debt. That is why I focus on management with the percentages of GDP to debt and percentage of revenue to debt obligations. As such the risk is that si the rising interest expense on said debt, not the amount.

Yet, we do have to increase revenues. Tax cuts isn't going to help and it isn't going to pay down the debt. Even Rep Ryan;s plans have not done that in the short term fo 8 to 10 years. The question then becomes where does the revenue come from. With more than 70% of all revenue coming from personal income tax, that is where it will be. And given we have the second lowest personal income tax rate amongst the industrialized nations, increasing the effective personal tax rate might be a good idea. But you have to combat that with the ever growing tax evasion schemes that continually go on. Loweing the rate will only increase that phenomenon.

On the other hand, if you want to decrease spending, then Congress will have to pass bills to forgo the governmental obligations to manage the regulations. Getting reid of agencies is simply a political hat trick when the obligations are still there but simply not being enforce. Well, there goes that "we are a nation of laws" argument .

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And one of the reasons why he had a great economy is because Cogress overspent while Reagan approved such spending as long as the economy was good.

 

yeah cause so many Americans benefit from tax caps, just look at the social security tax cap

one thing I have noticed is that no mater how much the gov cuts back on our safety nets and the like, we the people still pay the same % of every dollar...

cut back welfare, replace it with a war or two or some nation building overseas, ect...


.

 

It is insane, yes. As long as people don't get together and put their feet down and refuse to go along with all the taxes and crapola, they will just keep taking more and more.

I'm waiting to see Americans lose their complacency and actually do the above for a change. A number do so now, of course. I'm one of them by virtue of my self-employment, my remuneration for which is not subject to automatic withholding. It's up to me to pay in, and oh yeah, at a higher rate than people earning regular wages comparable to my earnings too.

It's truly a disgusting situation, in particular because of how little we working people end up getting from the government in exchange for the massive share of our earnings that they demand. The game as it stands now is to hire an accountant to help you try to get around the stupid tax system, which I also find ridiculous. The income tax needs to go away or be seriously reduced, and of course government spending and size need to be cut way down accordingly. But again, we the people need to make this happen. Don't count on the politicians. All they ever do is lie and manipulate.

 

I think it's funny that you tell me to go read some of your posts, and this is what I find. Your argument is 2 sentences, both of them are nothing but ad hominem attacks on the right, rather than an actual argument against the guy you quoted. You didn't even address the issue that he was talking about. Here's a little tip, when you quote somebody, try to address each point they are making individually. Many points can be grouped together into a few sentences (those are called paragraphs), and you can address the thesis of there paragraph with a counterargument. If you want to talk about specific statements, you can put quotation marks around them so that the person reading will be able to understand what you are talking about. This does not mean taking part of a single sentence from a paragraph, coloring it red, and then simply saying that it is "right winged mindlessness" and therefore it is incorrect. Come on man, I know you're better than this.

So let's get back to what OldManOnFire was saying. He raises a valid point that the budget deficit has been at some of the highest rates in history. Obama often brags that he has "Cut the deficit in half since taking office." This is a perfect example of the sly language that lawyers use to convince you of something that is extremely misleading. Deficit is just the amount of money he is stealing from the future to pay for his little pet projects today. Let's look at Bush, for example. I will agree that Bush was a terrible president no matter how you spin him, but let's look at the 2008 crisis. Before then, Bush "only" added 4.2 trillion to the debt (Obama is already at the 5.1 T mark, and he still has 2 more years of spending). Now, I'm sure you somehow blame republicans for the 2008 crisis, which I can somewhat agree with, but a big part of the problem was Clinton's push for everybody to own a home during his administration (here is a 1999 article talking about how Clinton was pushing Fannie Mae to give easier access to money to lower income families). I will say that a large part was because of the banks (which saw a drastic reduction in regulations under the Bush administration), but as Michael Moore explains in Capitalism, a Love Story, banks already owned the politicians, including the democrats. They were giving sweet deals on loans to many prominent politicians on both sides of the isle in order to get regulations cut. The fact, once again, that you think it is a good idea to give the very institution of whom you already hate half of it's employees (the republicans) even more money and power is simply a ridiculous argument that you and every other liberal seems to be making. When Bush came into office, could you imagine if he spent the way Obama does on stimulus? The democrats would be freaking out. In fact, it was Obama who once said "The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure."

At the end of the day, I know you have good intentions, you think you are the smartest person in the world, and you just want people to believe you, but sometimes you need to really challenge your own ideas. Think about what it would be like giving the federal government all this power, then what if it IS a "right wing" congress in 10 years, just imagine if they have accumulated all of this power that liberals want to give Obama today (could you imagine if BUSH was in control of that much power?) Liberals wouldn't be able to stop them, they could do some terrible things to the country (in your opinion), and yet it was your ideas which you are pushing today that would have given them this power.

 

And he sought to end the deficits by closing all tax shelters and loopholes - but Republicans objected as it would end the corporate welfare state.

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Your comments about liberals are less than flattering just in case you hadn't noticed.

 

What is interesting about the F35 is that we all realize that manned fighters are quickly becoming a thing of the past. An unmanned drone or a smart missile does not have to worry about G-Force and does not care about dying.

These planes will be obsolete in very short order, if not already and since the planes we already have are far advanced over our rivals and will be for the foreseeable future these new planes are a big waste of money.

Then of course there is the glaring fact that war with any significant power (having nukes), in the traditional sense, is obsolete.

We simply have no major enemy to defend against and the idea that we do is a fantasy sold to the public to keep the military industrial complex going.

 

If you look at Obama's budget projections this year we spend $3.8 trillion and it increases every single year over $5 trillion expenditures in just a few years. Government spending is like that Energizer Bunny...

 

Our President Obama gets 35% of your investments and half of your take-home pay, because were it not for his generosity, you would have no investments and business at all. It's by the good graces of Obama that you even have a business. Keep in mind that it was President Obama and Democrats that made it possible for you to even own a business.

 

Can you hear yourself? This sounds like Obama is some kind of a God who we should worship. "His generosity" and the "good graces" of Obama are what you are fighting for. Obama makes money in a single way, and that is by taking it from people who have earned it. Obama didn't make the iphone in my pocket, the TV I am watching, the food that I eat, and almost nothing else that I come into contact with on a daily basis. It was individuals who made these products out of their own self interest that gave me these things. The federal government was never intended to be the one who redistributes the wealth. What has Obama actually produced? He has produced laws that have forced people to behave how he thinks they should behave. Who apparently, according to you, can not be trusted with their own money, and so he should take it off there hands and take responsibility for them. Our founders had very strong opinions about this kind of "big brother" federal government.

“When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.”
-Thomas Jefferson

“With respect to the two words ‘general welfare,’ I have always regarded them as qualified by the detail of powers connected with them. To take them in a literal and unlimited sense would be a metamorphosis of the Constitution into a character which there is a host of proofs was not contemplated by its creators.” - James Madison

“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the general welfare, the government is no longer a limited one possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one subject to particular exceptions.” James Madison

 

We should start a libertarian utopia in Antarctica

 

Simple answer at my end to hopefully give me Medicaid, SSI and other benefits since thanks to not providing help earlier I'm now considered to disabled to work by every doctor, physical therapist and expert I have dealt with. Your paying taxes in part to help me if I get these benefits.

 

which is about the same as Bush's budget, what the point, we still have to pay for the two 10+ year wars and will be for many years to come

 

you did not even address my post, caps help only the rich and republicans were fine with two 10+ year wars, but seem to be against a little nation building here at home

 

First off, I'm not a Republican, and was against the wars that we fought, so don't respond to this with an anti-conservative statement. The assumption you are making is that the government is spending their money efficiently. Sure, Obama will stand at the podium and take credit for our "recovery" even though he had very little to do with it, but that doesn't mean that the money that he forcibly took from one person to invest in something that HE saw as useful was actually efficiently spent. It should be clear by now that government is extremely inefficient at spending money. You may ask what has gotten us out of the hole of 2008 if it weren't for Obama? Well, that was people who weren't going to let the crash get them down. People like Elon Musk, Satya Nadella, and Steve Jobs were the real heroes in the recovery. It was private companies who were able to intelligently invest their capital in such a way as to grow their business, hire more people, and be a truly productive member of society.

It is clear that you really believe that if something big is going to happen that we need government to help, but have you ever thought about the great revolutions that came before us? When you think of who led the renaissanse, who do you think of? Do you imagine the people who held political power at the time, or do you think of the Michaelangelos, the Da Vincis, the Medicis and the Shakespeares that were born from it? These were not people elected by anybody, but who chose to be leaders of the world. The Medici were the most powerful politically, but they only did that after really revolutionizing the banking industry at the time. When you think of the real leaders of Ancient Greece, who comes to mind? Do you remember the politicians, or do you remember people like Aristotle, Socrates and Plato? The real leaders in our world are not the elected officials, but the people who just do what they believe in. They don't need to force somebody else to fund their ambitions because if they wanted something done, they would do it themselves.

 

Indeed, it's called "leading by example", a concept completely foriegn to politicians who exempt themselves from the laws they pass.

 

I'm just going to be honest with you, I don't owe you anything. The problems that you have had in your life are not my responsibility to take care of. I'm not here to tell you that you've had an easy life or to judge your life in any kind of way, I am here to tell you that I don't care about what happened to you any more than you care about my problems. I'm sorry that you need this kind of a reality check, but I was not the one who got me into the problems that you are experiencing today, and I shouldn't have to take care of you any more than you should have to take care of me. You do not deserve my money.

Now, you're probably pretty angry at me, and thinking that I am a smug idiot who doesn't know what a I'm talking about, but I have been through some hard times as well. You have a choice, and you can make it at any time. You can continue on with your; life blaming circumstances, other people and basically anything but yourself for where you are in life, or you can take responsibility and change your life. Now, I'm sure you'll respond telling me "well it's not MY fault I'm this or it's not MY fault I'm that," but it really doesn't matter. There are 6 billion people on this earth, many of them with MUCH harder lives then yourself (of course you never say we should send money that could be going to you to a country like Africa or Asia where people really need that money). A few of these people realize that nobody really cares about their issues, and no matter how much you tell me what your problems are, and how much it's not your fault, the fact is, I don't care. The problems you have are the problems you have, and taking my money is not going to get rid of your problems, you are only going to want more money. I really hope that you learn to accept responsibility for your life, it was until I did that I was a very sad and depressed and angry person.

We could sit here all day and talk about what people deserve, but the fact is, nobody really deserves anything. Does a blind man deserve to be born blind? Does a rich or poor kid deserve to be born rich? The fact is, many of us don't deserve the hands we are dealt, but we are dealt them in any case. You can sit back til you are blue in the face and complain about the cards in your hand, or you can play them to the best of your ability.

"Circumstances don't make a man, they reveal him" - James Allen

 

Because the left wing needs more of your money to fund social programs, doncha know? And if we've spent billions to end poverty and it still exists, then obviously we just haven't spent enough yet, we'll throw some more money at it! Same with education...and the right wing needs your money so when can have military bases the entire world over, and give corporate welfare...as for me, I'm one of those Libertarians dilligently plotting to take over the world, and leave you (and your tax dollars) the hell alone.

 

There is no way in hell your effective tax rate is 50%. What country are you really from?

 

I think you missed the sarcasm. I could be wrong, but if it wasn't sarcasm, I'm putting it in my sig lol.

 

Ayuh,.... Since Obo's in office, We're up to 'bout December 30th,....