Why I hate Civilians - A Military-member's Manifesto

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Mushroom, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was starting to post this in response to something somebody said in here, but instead I decided to post it in the general forum instead. And I am wondering how many other military-veterans agree with me..

    **********

    This should not come as a surprise to many, but parts of this should be explained once again.

    I largely have a pretty negative view of Civilians, and largely deal with them with contempt.

    Now understand, this is largely aimed at those civilians that deal with people like me with contempt. Military, especially career military.

    I see over and over some civilian (Right or Left Wing) pop in and give some really stupid comment, and all I can do is scratch my head and wonder at the stupidity that makes people actually think that way.

    I mean really, do you honestly think I am going to accept orders to storm into your house and take away all of your guns?

    I mean, do you honestly think that my pay is stealing food away from some starving child in the ghetto?

    Yes, I classify myself as "Conservative". Mostly because I believe in Conserving the status-quo, and that change should be made gradually, not in sudden jumps and leaps that cause instability. I believe strongly in compromise, and absolutely hate the idea of either party having either all control of the Government (Executive and both of the Legislative branches), or even more importantly a "Super-Majority" in any branch of Federal or State government.

    I consider myself a "Conservative", and also a "Moderate". I am a believer in compromise, and wish that both parties learned how to use it more. But even more importantly, I am so fracking sick and tired of one party demonizing the other.

    I am a military person through and through. I have served off and on since the first Reagan Administration. I have served under 5 Presidents now, and do what is ordered of me. And as of yet, I have never recieved an order that I see as in violation of the law, or the Constitution. I may not have liked all of them, but they have been lawfull, and have been carried out to the best of my ability.

    I have been invoted into the "Political Threads" in here many times, and have largely dipped my toe in, then left feeling that I should disinfect my toe from the filth that covered it from that dip. I am not a "political animal", and talking to me about "indoctrination" and "philosophies" largely leaves me with the feeling that I need to vomit. I could not care less about "Political Parties" or "Manifestos". My main influences are History (because the past often repeats itself), and what is a "Clear and Present Danger".

    To be blunt, I really could not care less. Love me, Hate me, Dispise me, it really does not matter to me. I do my job, and try to remind myself that I do so in the hopes that my children will never have to do so themselves. People have called me a fascist and a murderer. They have spit on me. Then again, they have thanked me for my service, and shaken my hand and even tried to pay for my meals and drinks. I do not want any of that, good or bad. I do not do what I do for personal gain, but because I honestly get personal pleasure from serving my Country, and the People of my Country.

    And in also serving the People of other countries. It makes me happiest when some citizen of the country I am in at the time comes up and thanks me for being there for them. I get more personal enjoyment from that then from 1,000+ Americans telling me the same thing. Yea, some Californian tells me I am a worthless piece of filth because I am in uniform while I put gas in my truck on my way home from a long week of work away from my wife. I could not care less, because I still remember that Kuwaiti citizen thanking me, and that means more to me then what that neo-hippie with his mind full of 420 would ever mean.

    Yea, I admit, I am writing this late on a Saturday night. I have probably had a bit more to drink then I should. Then again, for the last 2 months I have seen my wife an average of 2 days a week, and been working mostly from 6am until 8pm. And no, I do not get overtime. I am on a salary, and for living in Northern California it is rediculously low. But I do not do what I do for money.

    Frack, I left a company as a Senior Computer Technician in 2007 to go back into the military (at the age of 42). I have MCSE, Novell Certs, A+, and am on the tail end of A+, N+, CCNA, CCNE, and live in the Bay Area. Can anybody say "$60k+"?

    But I would turn all that away in a heartbeat to be back on active duty, in my sub-$30k military job.

    I could not care less about praise. I could not care less about shiny things on my uniform. I have always wanted to, and still do serve my country to the best of my ability. And also any country that my own offers it's protection over.

    My wife of over 25 years has put up with a lot of deployments, a lot of absences. And she sometimes even reads over my shoulder in here. And trust me, you do not want to read what she says. Ironically, in many ways she is even more militant then I am, and she is a "Democrat".

    To wrap this rambling post up, my basic attituse if (*)(*)(*)(*) Left Wing. (*)(*)(*)(*) Right Wing. (*)(*)(*)(*) all of your mindless political nonsense. If you want to talk military, I can talk military. If you want to talk about why Missile A is better then Missile B, or why Aircraft C can be taken down by Missile C, I can do that all day long.

    If you want to interject why "Mister XXXXXX YYYYYY said that blah blah blah blah", I really could not give a flying (*)(*)(*)(*). Talk to me about Socialism or Fasciam or Communism, or talk about the US President (ANY US President) in a less then respectfull manner, and I will see you as nothing but a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing political hack and ignore 90% of what you say. Be it President Reagan, President Clinton, President Bush, or President Barack Hussin Obama. I may, or may not like any, none, or all of the Presidents I just listed. But they are all (or were) my Commander in Chief, and I give them all the proper respect their office demands.

    Why?

    If you do not get it by bnow, you are absolutely (*)(*)(*)(*)ing hopeless.

    Because I could not care less about politics!
     
    Dark Star and (deleted member) like this.
  2. william walker

    william walker New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2012
    Messages:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I respect you, not because of your military service but your knowledge and experience.
     
  3. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    9,756
    Likes Received:
    534
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is one huge member... probably a dildo.
     
  4. SFJEFF

    SFJEFF New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2010
    Messages:
    30,804
    Likes Received:
    254
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Good post. And if this is you writing while you drink, you should drink more...
     
  5. KGB agent

    KGB agent Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Messages:
    3,032
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Ok. That was interesting but majority of population feels the same. Nothing to do with being in military or not.
     
  6. liberalminority

    liberalminority Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2010
    Messages:
    24,493
    Likes Received:
    1,431
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It is good, thought it would be irrational but it makes sense. The point was military have to be objective, and they are for the most part.

    As long as they respect that President Obama is the commander in chief, that is all i ask of them.
     
  7. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Actually, I get offended when somebody is rude to our Presdent, be it Presidents Reagan, Bush, Clinton, or Obama. I may or may not like our President, may or may not agree with him, but that is beside the point. I hold somebody in contempt when they refer to President Bush in an offensive manner, just as I do if it is aimed at President Obama.

    This is what I mean about my objection to people who are blatently political. For example, I have seen people in here constantly slam President Bush, then turn right around and act like they got a pole shoved up their *CENSORED* when somebody talks the same way about President Obama. That is also blatently political, because it shows a distinct bias in their response. It may not even be in the same thread, but I tend to remember those individuals and take them much less seriously then I would otherwise simply because I know their strong bias is only thinly hidden.
     
  8. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    12,679
    Likes Received:
    2,817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Then you're exactly as bad as the people you're complaining about and have entirely invalidated the rest of your post. I hope you talk more sense sober.
     
  9. Herkdriver

    Herkdriver New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    21,346
    Likes Received:
    294
    Trophy Points:
    0
    To most civilians the military and military life exist in the abstract...it's becoming more and more a caste system and those who choose the services are in a unique sub-culture.
     
  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Very nice. And I notice you apparently ignored what was said immediately after that sentence:

    So if you think that applies to you, then maybe you should stop dealing with me and people like me with comtempt.

    If you do not act that way, then obviously it does not apply, does it?
     
  11. Mrlittlelawyer

    Mrlittlelawyer Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2011
    Messages:
    317
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    18
    I respect you for your service, perhaps not your attitude or language, but its not mine to judge really.

    Tonight I write after coming home from a karate lesson, one of my arms is bruised all over (you know the swollen and all) and isn't feeling the best but reading your post I know you have gone through much worse. So on that note its an encouragement (its funny when someone can encourage you or give you heart all across the internet but good all the same). So I just wanted to tell you that, and also karate comes up in another part of this post anyway, so its relevant.

    To be honest not much of what you said I haven't heard before. One of the things that interest me in your post is the subject of the president. My dad taught me the same thing. When I would mention the president and say "Obama" he would correct me and tell me to say the correct title "President Obama". Recently to be honest though, I have noticed a change on my dad's part. He doesn't do so anymore, and has said some things about the Pres which could be considered derogatory or insulting. In my own opinion I cannot blame him to much. Yes it may be that Pres. Obama is the commander in chief and may deserve or has deserved our respect. That is not nearly enough though. So let me explain.

    Whether you hate or dislike civilians or not is not a question. Your commander in chief is our employee (and yours still technically speaking). Yes we pay him and put him there. There are rules as to what he can do and these are outlined by the constitution. On this I can say that Pres. Obama has violated the constitution and ordered the death of the US citizens. This fact remains no matter what you may say about it, there is no argument against that fact. It happened. Presidents are people, and they are not perfect, they can be evil wrong and do unlawful things. Such as all the undeclared wars of the past century.

    This brings me to another place. Sir I can only hope you would never listen to an unlawful order. I do not necessarily think you will ever bust down my door and take my guns. The fact remains though, there are those people out there who will, someone killed american citizens, they followed the order. So whether you like it or not that fact does remain. I respect that you under such orders would turn to your commander and tell him no (at least i assume this). This fact remains, armies have been used for evil purposes and there will always be people willing to carry out those purposes.

    Back to Karate. Tonight the instructor gave us a talk about respect and many things regarding it. How military respect works and more. It was as simple as this "Respect titles". I am a citizen of a free country with the right (not the privilege) to question and speak my mind. So I respect people, NOT titles*. I am not being arrogant, only true to my principles/ This should get you an idea of why there are parts of what you said that I dislike. I respect that you are in the military, you have commanders and you get orders, ect. We are not though, and thus operate much differently, disrespecting that is just as wrong as any of us disrespecting you. Its just as bad no matter which way you want to put it. Not that we should disrespect military men, I simply ask the same of you towards us.
     
  12. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2010
    Messages:
    12,679
    Likes Received:
    2,817
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Your statement was that you have a negative view of civilians in a thread you entitled "Why I hate civilians". You have a legitimate objection to people who treat you with contempt because you're in the military but opening with such negative generalisations of civilians is exactly the kind of thing you're objecting to when directed towards the military. If you don't hate all civilians, don't post the statement "I hate civilians".
     
  13. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    What part of the following did you miss?

    Or this little bit:

    I thought it was pretty clear who I was targeting, but I guess that is not the case for a lot of people in here. I guess some people are just so political that they automatically assume that everything is about them.
     
  14. cupAsoup

    cupAsoup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    7,879
    Likes Received:
    899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I remember when I got out of the Army, I really wanted to punch a lot of civilians in the face. I was angry because I thought that they didn't care. I thought they took everything around them for granted. In large part, they are oblivious to what a hard days work really is, what it's like to be truly cold, or even tired. As time went on my anger faded, mostly due to the fact that their indifference and ignorance is what makes the warrior class of Americans special. We take ourselves out of the numerous comforts of civilian life and put on our backs the burden of maintaining what they take for granted. I'm glad that our civilians can focus on things like art, music, philosophy, and mathematics without the stress of providing safety for the country. The USA has become great because those who serve have provided a blanket of freedom for civilians to prosper. After all, not every one is cut out to bear the torch of defending freedom.
     
  15. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think that what bothers me the most is the ingratitude and actual hostility that many show towards us.

    I can't tell you how many times I have had those who never served judge me based on what they thought I was like. And to be honest, it largely pisses me off because here are people who claim to be "enlightened" and "sophisticated" and "intelligent", acting almost in a Pavlovian manner because to them I have a bell over my head.

    One of my first phone interviews after I left active duty actually had the person telling me "Well, we are LGBT friendly, and you may not fit in this kind of environment."

    I mean, WTF is that? I guess they just assume for some reason that everybody in the military absolutely hates individuals who might be homosexual, and we just attack them every chance they get.

    Or the "Well, people who join the military are poor-uneducated-stupid-minorities who can do nothing else in life."

    Yea, another stereotype that makes my teeth ache.

    I think it is that kind of hypocracy that makes me the most angry. People who claim to be "above average" in their sensitivity, who then stereotype me and my brothers and sisters as some kind of mindless thug because we made a choice to serve our country.

    To be honest, I am actually a rather moderate person politically. But having faced so many of these "enlightened Liberal Democrats" over the years, I know that I will never consider myself a Democrat. Simply because I could never embrace a party where so many absolutely dispise a segment of our nation who volunteer to serve their nation.

    Mostly that "rant" I opened with was fueled in part by an excess of alcohol that night, and even had a bit of pointed sarcasm in it. Like my very fact of calling it a "manifesto", even though I stated that I hate manifestos. But more then anything else it was made to make people just open their minds and think. Not change any minds, hopefully just to make some realize that not everything is the way they think it is.

    And to realize that a lot of them are nothing but hypocrits.
     
  16. Zorroaster

    Zorroaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    1,183
    Likes Received:
    34
    Trophy Points:
    48
    I did my bit from '71- 75, but I am not a career military person. I come from a working class background, and everyone I know has either served, is serving, or has a close family member that served. This is par for the course for a person of my background.

    It is not par for the course for the upper middle class and the elites. They are unlikely to have children enter the armed forces or know anybody who does.

    This is a big problem, in my opinion. The professional voluntary military has done an excellent job with what they are given, don't get me wrong. But the restriction of military service to a relatively small handful leads to an unfortunate cultural divide between the military and the rest of society. The legislators who pound the podium for more interventions don't have to think of the consequences for their children or the children of their friends.

    Everyone should have a stake in the survival of our society, and an equal exposure to the risks as well. Universal military service is the only way to guarantee this.
     
  17. cupAsoup

    cupAsoup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    7,879
    Likes Received:
    899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I think you're guilty of the same thing you're railing against by stereotyping liberal democrats. Perhaps you just came across an idiot. Why must you assume they are liberal democrats? I'm sorry, but your bias is no better than theirs, if that in fact happened to you. Often, people cannot believe that i'm a veteran and a liberal. It's as if military service should make you a republican. It doesn't.
    I think you're projecting when you label half the voting population as being those who despise those who served. Explain to me how your sweeping generalizations are any better than theirs? Especially since you are making those generalizations about a far larger % of the population.

    I would never be happy with someone who looked down on military service. However, I do think it's important that people are free to have such opinions. I don't want anyone to burn the flag, but I am glad they have the right to do so. Not everyone has to think veterans are heroes because there are a lot of veterans who are turds, just like any cross section of the general populace. There is way too much hero worship for veterans in this country, as if military service automatically makes a person virtuous or honorable. It does not. How many people joined because of pure patriotism? I remember a lot of guys who knocked up girls, wanted money for college, were too dumb to get into college, had legal issues, or simply didn't have many options in life. People join for many reasons other than some selfless devotion to god and country. It's good to remember that.
     
  18. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Well, think about that phone interview. How many "Conservative Republicans" can you think of would say that I would not fit into an "LGBT friendly company" (in Baghdad by the Bay no less)? Of course, there was the time a crazy lady with the rear of her car covered with the typical "Liberal lunatic" stickers (ban meat, love not war, Obama, etc) tried to run me off the I-80 as I rode to work. I literally passed her in another lane, minding my own business when she started to ride my bumper screaming and honking her horn. To this day the only thing I can think of that ser her off was the obvious USMC patch on the back of my jacket. Either that, or she simply hated guys on blue motorcycles.

    Now mind you, I have absolutely nothing against Liberals, nor Democrats. It is what I call the "Lunatic nutcase fringe" I have issues with. And to be absolutely honest, I have the exact same issues with the "Lunatic nutcase fringe" that is known as the Libertarian wing of the GOP. But living in California (mostly San Francisco area for the last 5 years, now Sacamento), the Liberal Lunatics are so much more obvious then the Loosertarian ones.

    And yes, as a moderate, I am pretty equal in my hatred of all extremists.

    And BTW, a great many of those who would get into my face in almost physical confrontations when walking through SF for the 13 months I worked there were rather open about their political beliefs. One ammusing exchange with a former coworker started when she told me that people should not be allowed to vote while they are in the military, because they all vote Republican and are working to oppress the people and destroy the country. Somehow, she did not realize I was in the military myself. I asked her if that should include myself (since I was and still am in the reserves), she said it should not, since I could not be in the military.

    ******

    I readily admit, many of my experiences are more then likely skewed, because I have been living for so long around Baghdad by the Bay. Where "you will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

    Not to mention that as I said, on that night I was fueled by the phrase "In aqua vitae veritas".
     
  19. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,867
    Likes Received:
    7,040
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I really enjoyed reading the OP and have to admit... chuckled my way through most of it :smile:, I agree with the poster below vvv I'm as civilian as they come and feels very much the same way you do :) ...don't hate me lol

     
  20. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,867
    Likes Received:
    7,040
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Happens to most of us.... I have a white fluffy lapdog, now tell me you haven't already judged me... it does not (*)(*)(*)(*) me off, I thoroughly enjoy people underestimating me
     
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    9,938
    Likes Received:
    966
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sure have. You love having things show you unadultered love and affection and live to please, simply because you feed them.

    Myself, I am a cat person. Other then when they want food, an almost total FU attitude.

    *laugh* all in good fun, honest.
     
  22. Tuatara

    Tuatara Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    2,233
    Likes Received:
    74
    Trophy Points:
    48
    These type of posts I loathe. What blanket of freedom have you provided for your citizens. Tell me exactly. Most laws surrounding freedoms were put there by politicians. I can't think of one thing that has corroded your freedoms on the last 50 years that you have stopped. Please by all means explain them to me. The military get enough pat on the backs, more than just about any other job. Yet when someone criticizes the actions of the military or ridiculous comments like this "After all, not every one is cut out to bear the torch of defending freedom." They and their militia groupies get their panties in a knot. I just want you or anyone else explain how you are defending freedom?
     
  23. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    10,867
    Likes Received:
    7,040
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    uhm I think the things he described...
    is typical post traumatic stress symptoms and let's be truthful, civilians really don't understand, with the exception of those who may have experienced trauma, like me because I'm South African by birth.


     
  24. cupAsoup

    cupAsoup Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2015
    Messages:
    7,879
    Likes Received:
    899
    Trophy Points:
    113
    If perhaps you read the entire post before making your emotional outburst you would have seen that I was glad that people did not have to worry about their security and could concentrate on pursuits that make society better as a whole. Not everyone is cut out for the military. That's not a slight on those who do not serve. A brilliant musician or artist shouldn't serve, they serve society better with their talents.
    You don't need to be in a trench in Verdun to defend freedom. I also do not have any militia groupies. Militia's are usually made up of idiots who never served and like playing with guns. I'm happy that you have the freedom to sit on your butt in front of your computer and whine like a petulant child about things you loathe. I think some of your animosity is misplaced towards the military.
     
  25. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,933
    Likes Received:
    485
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Most of this comes down to: It's wrong to blame veterans for bad decisions made by politicians. I believe Vietnam was probably the most immoral war America has waged, but that absolutely does not mean people who were deployed there deserve disrespect for doing their job. I suppose it's hard to thank Vietnam vets for "keeping us safe," but I do think they deserve respect for their courage and ability to rise to challenges.
     

Share This Page