Why I hate Civilians - A Military-member's Manifesto

Ideally, I've always like the idea of the citizen-soldier as embodied by the Reserves. This certainly works as a way to augment a professional armed forces (regulars). However, realistically a nation can't rely upon the
citizen-soldier concept given the highly technical nature of modern warfare requiring professional armies to be a necessity. In other words, the traditional reservist drilling on weekends and a few weeks a year isn't adequate preparation to comprise a professional force ready for the rigors of deployment when called upon.

So I'm assuming the OP is referring to those who dedicate themselves to the profession of arms, careerists.

Most Americans are familiar enough with the military to respect it. It was the Vietnam War that turned out to be a bitterly divisive period that changed "civilians" view of the profession of arms This was the first televised war and images of women and children with napalm burns, and instances like the My Lai massacre (examples) being beamed into the living rooms of average civilian homes...these first glimpses of the reality of war and human suffering changed the public perception of the profession of arms from having noble intent to callous disregard.

Televsion journalism changed everything. It allowed the civilian population a glimpse into the abyss.

 

You say this after 8000 posts on a website called "Politicalforum.com"?

 

Yea, I do.

Tell you what, take a look at my posting history. I think you will find something rather unique. Somewhere around 85% of my posts are right here in the Military section. And most of the rest are generally in History or Science. It is very rare for me to go into any of the "Political" threads, and I generally do it because I am called over when somebody brings up something they know I have more then a passing familiarization about.

About 2 years ago this happened when somebody brought up Missile Defense in Poland. Somebody in that political thread actually brought up some crapola they read that PATRIOT in Poland would be used as long range artillery to attack Russia. So yea, I popped my head in, I corrected the nonsense, then faded out of that all together.

Go on up into the political areas, and see if anybody who is not in the military threads even knows who I am. Good luck with that, I do not know them, and they do not know me. Believe it or not, not everything in PF revolves around politics.

 

Fair enough. It just kinda struck me as funny that a guy who couldn't care less about politics has 8000 posts on "Politicalforum.com"

 

Here's a suggestion that will solve the issue of you thinking I am a dumbass and that I ruined your thread. Hit the ignore button.

 

Yes, the OP is comical actually. He claims that he will do whatever he is ordered to do and that is why he likes the military. Literally it requires no thinking whatsoever and he likes being a no-thinking sheeple. He then goes on to explain he does not care in the slightest about politics, laws, social issues, election or anything else about society. Rather, all he cares about is what any superior orders him to do no matter what it is.

With that, he is furious that people don't respect people with his perspective.

I certainly don't. His own self definition is that of desiring only to be a mindless organic machine. I don't respect machines. Rather, they merely exist to be used however they are used.

Fortunately, I doubt 1% of people in the military share is viewpont of themselves or society.

 

No, what actually requires thought is improving your reading comprehension. That is assuming of course that you actually read what I wrote.

But here, le tme say once again something that I said quite clearly. Please feel free to go back and check, I think you will find I said that in my first post:

So please, feel free to go back and quote anything I said that is anywhere even close to what you claim I said. In fact, I said something quite the opposite.

You see, this is what probably disgusts me the most. When somebody dishonestly twists the words of another, and does not even have the courtesy to quote what they actually said.

So all we have here is your projection of what you think I said. Yea, to bad I said nothing like that at all. So yea, please show where I said I will do whatever I am ordered to do. Good luck, because you will find I said nothing like that (and even said I would disobey an order that was illegal). And I mostly am disgusted with people like you.

So please, excuse me while I say that you should either quote me correctly, without your own interpretation without even referencing anything I said, or (*)(*)(*)(*).

And please, show me where I said my own self-definition is "desiring only to be a mindless organic machine". Because that is what is known as "making things up".

 

Just came across this thread.

Having been a Mil brat for 15 yrs and also reg service, I have seen the bias and poor attitude often toward the military.

Often they have to rent houses while being temporarily stationed somewhere, and some have left bad impressions on the landlords. My dad, who worked his way from an enlisted private to CWO4 officer status, always raised my sis & I that whenever you borrow something or use something, etc. you ALWAYS return it in timely manner and in better condition then when you got it (cleaning & sharpening tools, etc. no matter what condition you got them in).

The saddest part of my dad being retired after 21 yrs (so that me and my sis could graduate in the same HS) was that both he and my mother never had close friends in civilian life as they had built up years in the military--even now, their best friends are former mil that they stay in touch with over several states.)

Civilian life is not conducive to those kinds of bonding, as when in the mil everyone is in the same boat---usually away from home and always having to make new friends wherever they go.

I've found out since I got out of the mil myself, my best lifelong friends are still some of those I met during my 4 yrs in the mil. More so than any I had in HS.

But also as far as life skills, I can & have the ability to meet new ppl and fit in, esp when dealing with vets!

 

Don't feed the troll bro

 

The issue is that civilians have no idea how tough being in the military is. They have no valid argument in the debate about civilian vs. military lifestyles. Service men and women have been both civilians and warriors, so only we hold the valid argument.

 

Same here. Although my parents never served, both of my Grandfathers served in WWII, and 2 of my 3 uncles served during Vietnam.

However, I knew from as old ad 5 that I wanted to be in the military. My mom had one of the "Childhood" books that was big in the era, where you recorded information about the child as they grew up. Things like height and weigh early on, then later dreams and goals. And in 1970 when I was 5 my goals were to be "a soldier, astrologer (I means astronomer, but hey, I was 5), and a geologist". When I started High School, one class I took every year was JROTC. And before I even graduated, I had already enlisted.

But of all those I have kept in contact with over the years, most of them (thanks to Facebook) have been from the military. One ironically was a guy I was stationed with in 1984, who I bought my second motorcycle (and first Goldwing) from in 1985. Even a few I communicate most with I went to High School with, but also joined the military but I was never stationed with (one joined the Air Force, 2 joined the Army, two joined the Marines like me and I met 1 when we were both on Okinawa in 1990).

I think military friendships tend to last longer, as we all tend to go through the same things. And even if we go back home, sometimes our friends from school have move on while we were gone and can no longer be found. I am grateful for things like FB, because it let me reconnect with some I had not seen in decades.

Many also have a very twisted idea of who we are, and why we serve. My time in the military is somewhat unique, but also unusual.

I joined when I lived in LA, and wanted to "travel and see the world". Well, that did not work out as I thought, spending the next 4 years stationed less then an hour from home. But then I spent 3 years in North Carolina, then 3 years in the San Francisco Bay Area. I then had to get out (medical, knee injury), and went back to LA, then moved to Alabama.

After 5 years in Alabama, I was able to join the Army, then was sent to Texas where I spent the next 5 years (not counting my time deployed) in El Paso. Then after I left Active Duty and went to the Reserves, I went back to Northern California.

One thing that is typical is that we move, a lot. Most people that stay in the military move every 3-5 years. Many of us make friends who last for decades. But in the military, we made friends who lasted for a year or two at a time, then one or the other moved on (to a new post or back to civilian life). And yes, most of those who join do a single 4-6 year hitch then get out and return to civilian life.

Most civilians simply can not comprehend what being in the military was like. Where you can be punished (not just fired) for things like showing up to work late, or drunk. And that standards (appearance, fitness, weight) must be met, or you can be kicked out (fired). They scream if some company fires somebody because they are "to fat". But in the military, that is accepted as par for the course. Don't have the self-discipline to keep your weight in control, out you go.

In the civilian world, balloon to 300 pounds, so what?

And with a smaller and smaller percentage of the population even willing to join the military, that separation is growing more and more. Yea, some political tools may talk about things like "overseas wars", but how can that be made to stick when for example the current President has less individuals involved in combat zones then when Reagan was President? This to me really shows their detatchment from what the military is really like, and that to them it is only seen as an enemy and to be opposed at every change.

They do not see us as citizens of the nation trying to serve our nation, but as the enemy and to be attacked at every chance.

 

Thanks for your dedication to your country, even though our Congressman and Senators could care less about our vets when they come home. That being said, I don't believe any war since WWII has been in the best interest of our national security; and I pray every day that we stop occupying the middle east because it is fact that this administration is only arming the terrorists. These so called moderate rebels in Syria who are trying to overthrow Assad, for all we know we could be arming ISIS. One thing's for sure, Gaddafi and Saddam were professional terrorist killers and the region was far more stable before their demise. Assad is the last secular leader in the middle east who is not promoting Sharia Law, and the last middle eastern nation that refuses a central banking system. I don't believe Saddam had anything to do with knocking down the twin towers, and he was only upset anyways when Kuwait wasn't following OPEC rules. Bush could have deployed troops to go after Saddam Hussein right after 9/11, instead of using our army he hired Afghani war lords who failed miserably; outsourcing the job is never works in our favor. The Shah was a great leaders of Iran, makes you wonder who kickstarted the Iranian revolution. My solution to stop ISIS, stop arming them; they are shooting at us with our weapons. Take the oil, put our troops back on the ground instead of funding moderate proxy wars, and ally with Putin and Assad to finish them once and for all. Also our we forgetting that all of these middle eastern nations have military's as well, why aren't their military's defending their borders; why must we babysit every middle eastern nation who doesn't give us anything in return. Meanwhile our own infrastructure is falling apart because our focus and money is spent overseas, and our VA is falling apart so we can't even support our veterans once they get back home from war. It's not a great system we have set up right now, we can do a lot better.

 

Often the military is looked down on (per Kerry's comment, if you cant make it in school you join the military), but esp with the GI Bill many get a formal education from their svce.

I was all set to go to college following HS, good SAT, had a room reserved at TX Tech and was going to study engineering. During the summer following HS grad, I decided " I was tired of school and wanted to go out and see the world." Following 6-wk boot camp sweating it out during the summer in San Antonio (no A/C those days) , spent the next 'year' in USAF tech school (6 hrs/day) including being 'enrolled' in courses such as "Academic KP" and "Hanger Duty," (part of 2nd Phase Basic)--- ever sweep out a gigantic airplane hanger with a push broom?!

And speaking of getting penalized for minor things, had my car the last 6 mos of tech school, and went to the beach in Biloxi. MS on day off in my civies w/3 buddies, drank beer, and came back in thru the main gate with shirt off---was given a 'verbal' Article 15 for on base with no shirt---which meant, more hanger duty!

Altho I enlisted right out of HS at still 17 yo when Nam was still an 'armed conflict", I then spent the next 3 yrs 'fighting' the other war, the cold war in Europe, as I tell my 'war' stories of "fighting it in the bars & Gasthauses of W. Germany"

But those 3 yrs were some of the best in my life, traveling Europe on trains, etc.

Got out and then went to college under the GI bill...now 4 yrs older, more mature (was a Group Supervisor in the svce over 13 guys at 20 yo) , and wiser, and probably would have dropped out if I had of gone right after HS!

My daughter, who dropped out of HS at 17 yo, went the C&W bar scene, being a bar tender, and ended up 'dead ending.' She then joined the TX Army Nat Guard, which straightened her out and gave her a trade---trained as a Medic with a speciality in Opthomology. Now many years later, got married, is raising 3 boys and in the past 3 yrs got her RN and then a BSN. The best thing that came out of her life's experiences is that she has said several times and thanked me for the way I raised her, which is the same way my Mil dad raised me--being responsible and self-disciplined!

 

Means being stationed at Ft. Bliss in El Paso. Still remember the banner over the entrance with the slogan that said "It's a great day to be a soldier."

 

I like your mention of their detachment from what the military is like. Very true.

 

Look.....Mushroom does not really hate civilian's even if he posts it....he just hates their ignorance and their lack of understanding on some issues and I happen to agree with him.

You have NO IDEA what it feels like to be in combat or serve during wartime and then come home and listen to some of the most inane and idiotic tripe one could ever hear.

Now I am certain Mushroom will and has defended the Constitution of the United States and has and will defend the Bill of Rights and that mean's defending FREE SPEECH even though this right makes it OK for some IDIOT CIVILIAN'S to go and protest during a Fallen Soldiers FUNERAL spouting out inanities to this fallen warrior's family at the graveside like......AND THIS ACTUALLY HAS HAPPENED......"YOUR SON IS DEAD BECAUSE THE U.S. MILITARY ALLOWS GAY'S TO SERVE AND GOD IS PUNISHING AMERICAN'S!!

Now I S#!# you not some Civilian's have been doing this that are the members of a Church and who are FANATICAL BAPTISTS.

When I heard about this I WAS OUTRAGED and fortunately a BIKER GROUP that is based in Massachusetts that supports Military Families went and drove their bikes and blocked this Civilian Activist Group with their bikes from harassing a grieving family.

In this case I would not give a damn about Free Speech because if I am burying a young man who was one of the best of all of us......and some Religious Fanatic starts screaming that my nephew is dead because GOD is punishing the U.S. Military for allowing Gay Soldiers.....well.....if that happened to me those protesting would not have TEETH left in any of their big F@#$ING MOUTHS!!!!

THAT...I believe is the point of Mushroom's posted topic.

If you disagree with my assessment Mushroom by all mean's let me know.

AA

 

Hey...what I will now post is a FACT and I am not joking.

If a person is lucky enough to get a tour deep inside the Cheyenne Mountain base there is on the 2nd to the lowest level.....a hallway and if one were to go down 3/4'rs of the way West down this hallway and then on the North side of the hallway they will find a door with a small sign on that door that say's......

............STARGATE COMMAND.

If one OPENS that door they will see...........

..........A BROOM CLOSET!!!!

LOL!!!!!


I S#!# YOU NOT!!!! LOL!!!

AA

 

Short funny story:

I remember after a long trip from the states to W. Germany where I was stationed at a small site next to an Intelligence Security Squadron (later found out had the nickname "Disneyland" due to the weird assortment of antennas monitoring cold war communications) and was living in a WWII German Luftwaffe (air force) barracks, Got in late after a "steam locomotive" took me the last portion of the trip to a small Bavarian town.

When I woke up the next morning, I looked out the window across the station and saw a giant logo that I swore said, "Freedom Through Violence", and said to myself WTH place did I get stationed at?!! Later on with clearer eyes, saw the logo in a better light:

 

Great story.

 

LOL!!!

That's funny!!

I basically grew up inside my Mom's office and her office was in the same building and right next to the General Office at a massive SAC Base in Western Massachusetts.

This base at that time had fully loaded with NUKES...B-52's sitting on the tarmac and they would fly Failsafe Missions...one in the morning......one in the evening....from Mass. up to the North Pole and back....EVERY DAY.

The General who did not have any boy children of his own.......LOVED MY ASS!! LOL!!!

He took pictures of me as a small child as he put a GLOBE between my legs as I was sitting atop his desc and he had given me this 6 inch metal replica of a B-52 and he put his hat on my head with newspaper inside it so it would sit properly and he had a uniform with FRUIT SALAD GALORE he had draped over my shoulders and he had me smile and hold the tiny B-52 over the Soviet Union atop the globe in a strike like position. LOL!!!

My Mom was a...."CIVILIAN"....who kept track of the Nukes.

The General took this picture and he had a huge number of smaller wallet sized ones and many 5 x 8's which he gave out to every B-52 Flight Crew and they had these pictures of me taped up inside the aircraft and in their wallets.

I became an unofficial mascot of the base and I knew all the flight crews and knew all the mechanics and loaders...etc.

They had a saying when they would load up NUKES....."You drop it....WE BUY IT!!" LOL!!!

AA

 

Disneyland: looks violent, huh...b4 the days of the "Death Star"...

Loved those days of the B-52's, used to flyover Ft. Worth out of Carswell AFB..nothing is more impressive than one of those giants taking off! Living in Tucson I'm by the 'bone yard' of retired A/C:



Short story: I joined the USAF and got the AFSC I was 'promised' during recruitment: Digital Data Processing Repairman (i,e. today, computer tech), and my good buddy from HS followed me a year later when Nam was spooling up big time, and because of his mechanical background working on cars, etc. was 'promised' to be trained as a Jet Mechanic--he spent his next 4 yr tour in Nam & at Carswell 'refueling' B-52's. Dont think he has ever forgiven me for my recommendation to join the USAF...

 

Yeah....if it's not in writing....it most likely will not happen!! LOL!!!

And sometimes even if it is!!!

I have friends and family in Mesa and my good buddy lives there as he used to fly F-15C's and he actually escorted the Soviet Union's Leader Gorby's aircraft when it flew in international waters over the pole.

I LOVE the BONEYARD!!!

How many HUSTLERS do they have in the Boneyard??

AA

- - - Updated - - -

P.S.....just to let you know....this base in Western Mass.is so big it was an Emergency Alternate Space Shuttle Landing Strip!!

AA

 

I live on the other side of town (Tucson is a sprawling 30 x 40 miles ) and havnt been in 10+ yrs.

Remember in the 1990's they had lots of F-4's from Nam.

And in the early 2000's F-14's and F-15's were abundant.

Some get 'taped' up for mothballing and possible future use/cannibalism, but much gets chopped up for the metals.

D-M (Davis Monthan AFB) has an air show every 2 years...mock straffings, bomb drops, etc. One of the most exciting was many years ago when then had a B-52 fly over and low-level carpet bomb an area---lots of cheers from the crowd!

 

Man I was in a B-52 back during the Invasion of Iraq.

I am not USAF but I work with them and I am used for JOBS as well I am a Consultant on specific issues and methods.

The reason I was on the B-52H had nothing to do with it's performance and at first it took the movements of mountains to get me on that BUFF.

But we came in over a Republican Guard Mechanized Division in a large wing of BUFF's.

We were carrying Anti-Tank and Anti-Personal Carrier Cluster Munitions.

And we were up HIGH and I could not help but feel sorry any human being that was unfortunate enough to be under us.

NOTHING survived that...nothing.

AA

 

Yeah, you've got these presidential candidates talking 'carpet bombing' over Syria & among large civilian populations and dont even know what they are proposing!