Why is Israel hated?

Discussion in 'Opinion POLLS' started by Ronstar, Jun 11, 2015.

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Why is Israel hated?

  1. They are hated due to their actions and extremist beliefs

    18 vote(s)
    47.4%
  2. They are hated due to anti-Semitism

    9 vote(s)
    23.7%
  3. A combo of both.

    9 vote(s)
    23.7%
  4. The Bible says its God's will, due to their disobedience.

    2 vote(s)
    5.3%
  1. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    There never was a country called Israel either.

    Israel with it's Jews keeps on ethnic cleansing and thieving land, trashing international law, binding UNSC resolutions, and the Geneva Convention all at the expense of the Palestinians. It's obvious the Jews do not want peace, and just more and more land while they thieve the water too. But lets blame the victim.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018
  2. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Not until 1948.


    No lets blame all those that deserve it. And the palestinians deserve their fair share. That you view the conflict as binary is part of the problem. Unless one can recognize the barriers to their goal includes their own demands and abilities then the likelihood of achieving them is slim

    After studying this issue over the decades I have come to the conclusion that the biggest blunder of the conflict was arab intransigence from
    1948 to the peace treaty with Egypt that cost Sadat his life. REFUSING to even talk or consider ANYTHING other than complete reversal of al nakba. They wanted the sore to fester in the hope it would infect Israel, but that didn't work and left the palestinian people destitute and ruled by murderous thieves wholly dependent on charity to survive. So sure blame Israel for all of palestinian woes.

    Now Israel is also culpable. They did ethnically cleanse tens of thousands of arabs in48. They began creating 'facts on the ground" in the WB 67 when again none of the losing arab nations would treat and the PLO flourished. They run a brutal belligerent military occupation. Not to mention the substantial number of neo zionist who believe in Israel from river to sea. They have been intransigent and deceptive.
    Then again, they've also been ruthless and hard nosed.


    You should also remember this. Winners set the terms. Losers have to decide if they compromise to accept them. Its not the other way around. That said for peace to happen both sides will have to be willing to compromise. And until the palestinians can demonstrate they are both serious about being partners in peace AND can deliver credible security guarantees to Israel, they will continue to live in misery.
     
  3. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    The entire rant that there never was a Palestine,... suggest that there was a country called Israel before. That's just fake news.

    Ah... "the Palestinians", well that's a racist approach to this. The Palestinian government has no blame in this. The Israeli government is. And if you want to go racist on this. It's the Jews who ethnic cleansed +700.000 Arab civilians to thieve their property. The Jews are still at it today. They got no intent to stop with it. And you demand here that Arabs must comply that they are kicked of their properties without lifting a finger? That is just utterly absurd and you know it.

    The UNSC set the terms. International law sets the terms. The Geneva Conventions set the terms.
     
  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Irrelevant at this point.
    It is perceived he said it. And hasn't definitively denied it.
     
  5. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No there was a palestine. it was the name of an province in the roman empire. It was a province of various empires thru the ages. There was never a "nation state" called Palestine - ever.

    Israel was an ancient kingdom. By definition that makes it a nation state. But its irrelevant in 2018 because since 1948 there has been a nation state called Israel.

    What part of REFUSAL TO ACKNOWLEDGE ISRAEL'S EXISTENCE FOR 30 YEARS AND THREE WARS DO YOU FAIL TO UNDERSTAND? No talkie, no resolution. Wage war, suffer defeat. wake up and smell the coffee. I am intimately familiar with the details of what transpired in 48. That was 70 years ago. Today is 2018 and the palestinians are still suffering. Gee I wonder what they could have been doing wrong that the combined efforts of three generations have not resolved their grievances nor improved their own lot. And they seem unable to recognize that in order to be a nation state, they have to take responsibility for their own present and future,not continue to look behind them as the nightmare gets farther and farther away.

    And as far as a peace treaty that is between combatants. International intervention got the armistice and dick all else. They Israelis had the power, they used in ruthlessly and they took the land they could by force to build their country. There would be no discussion between either side for 30 years. THEY GOT AWAY WITH IT, BECAUSE THE ARAB LEAGUE LET THEM. Stupid intransigence and unresolved hatred. Rational thought be damned. Meanwhile those crafty jews went ahead and built their nation and established facts on the ground while the arabs howled to the moon and anyone else who would listen as if begging for somebody else to give them their revenge for the catastrophe.
     
  6. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    That is biblical nonsense. There never was a kingdom called Israel.



    What part of comply with international law, Geneva Conventions, binding UNSC resultions do you not understand?
    Let me remind you, this is about why Israel is so hated topic.

    Also so much for your racist rant of the "Palestinians" are the problem. You got nothing on the Palestinian government. While the Israeli government are a bunch of terrorist with ethnic cleansing as a policy,... because that is what the Jews want.... thieving and ethnic cleansing. To than complain... oh why do people hate us? lol
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah I mean King Harods excavated palace was actually the ancient version of a Mikey D's.




    None. I am familiar with it all. Interesting that Palestinians are not signatories of any of those international agreements. So I guess all their violations are okay because of, you know, ISRAEL.

    YOu have a hard time parsing. I REPEATEDLY indicated that there is enough "BLAME" to go around. I acknowledge that Israel is belligerently occupying the territories. I acknowledge their "ethnic cleansing" - we only disagree with the number but that's like holocaust deniers quibbling with the 6 million number of dead jews. It doesn't excuse it or change the catastrophe.

    I acknowledge that the Israelis have often dealt with the palestinians in bad faith, just like the palestinians have in their dealings with Israelis.

    So perhaps you can pause and consider my words without kneejerking a reaction. I realize you might not like what i say, but if I have made any factual errors I'd appreciate you pointing them out to me.
     
  8. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    King Herod was a governing an little area in the Roman Empire. There was no Jewish kingdom.

    Let me remind you that Israel and it's Jews do everything in their power to stop Palestine becoming part of the UN all over the place, and financially penalizing them when they succeed.

    Let me get this clear ones and again.
    You compared "Israel".... a country ... with "the Palestinians" ... an ethnicity.
    And with this, you racially attack all the Palestinians for what some of them do.
    With your line of thought, you find it justified some Jew in France gets attacked for what goes on in the WB.
     
  9. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    which explains why he was a king.


    Yes because the palestinians do not possess sovereignty over their "territory". I realize this reality is upsetting to you but facts have a tendency to do that sometimes.


    so now palestinians are an ethnicity and not a nationality? I wasn't aware that ethnicities were allowed to join the united nations.

    An ethnicity is not a race so I can't racially attack palestinians unless i'm prepared to racially attack all white people. You do know that arabs are white by law in the US, don't you? You seem rather confused. Settle down, and think. I know you actually know these truths.
     
  10. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    How about you source the wikipedia page of him.... lol

    Neither does Israel. That is the reality of it.

    The state is called Palestine. Recognized by the UN and everything.

    And that is where you are wrong. Jews, by fast majority, in Israel are extremely racist towards Palestinians. They aren't "ethnicisits".
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  11. Fenton Lum

    Fenton Lum Banned

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    • Israeli arms sales to Europe grew from $724M in 2014 to $1.63B in 2015
    • Although the size of New Jersey Israel is one of the top 10 arms dealing nations in the world
    • Israel produces 60% of all drones worldwide and sells to over 50 countries, at times selling to both sides of a given conflict, and Israel fueled the drones arms race between India and Pakistan
    Palestine is an open air weapons testing and crowd control laboratory with Palestinians being used in the development phase; Gaza is a lab of mass destruction. US super bunker busters were supplied to the Israelis in 2014 and investors stock shot up; war is just business after all.

    The “War in Terror” has been a boon to the industry, you’ve seen what amounts to advertisement in every “news” outlet, we are being whipped up into a frenzy once again. The industry also pioneers crowd control research on the Palestinians, and Israel is involved in the training of American forces and law enforcement. We see this in the militarization of our own police departments, Ferguson was but one example of how our system is prepping to Palestinianize our own population, and in fact Ferguson now has Israeli developed/sold skunk spray post the Ferguson events, although no incidents have yet been reported of use on American streets. It’s pretty clear that the Israeli occupation style power structure is moving toward the same in America; a warehousing of the poor in a post industrial age with diminishing living wage jobs and privatized for profit prisons complete with a return to convict leasing.

    Much of the security monitoring and mass surveillance technologies are also produced in Israel and sold across the globe. “Targeted assassination” was invented in Israel, which Obama was quite fond of. Abu Ghraib torture methods? Israel.

    The US and Israel are not allies. The US and Israeli arms dealers are allies, and war is the business they are both in. We are all collateral damage.
     
  12. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't dispute that rome conquered the kingdom of Israel. that is how it works and SOP for the empire was to retain suitable local leadership overseen by roman officials on behalf of the emperor. A kingdom is a nation state.


    It seems you don't know what term means.

    sov·er·eign·ty
    ˈsäv(ə)rən(t)ē/
    noun
    1. supreme power or authority.
      "how can we hope to wrest sovereignty away from the oligarchy and back to the people?"
      synonyms: jurisdiction, rule, supremacy, dominion, power, ascendancy, suzerainty, hegemony, domination, authority, control, influence
      "their sovereignty over the islands"
      • the authority of a state to govern itself or another state.
        "national sovereignty"
        synonyms: autonomy, independence, self-government, self-rule, home rule, self-determination, freedom
        "the colony demanded full sovereignty"
      • a self-governing state.
        plural noun: sovereignties



    I seem to recall that the UNGA resolution was rejected by the UNSC. In which case the un does not recognize palestine as a nation state.

    And that is where, amongst other places, you are wrong.
     
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    No such name as Israel even, buddy,

    It's a binding UNSC resolution that says Israel doesn't have sovereignty over East Jerusalem / WB / Golan.

    Negative. The UNSC voted to not make it a UN member. The UNGA voted to recognize it as a country
     
  14. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    right. sure. just like palestine. I get it.


    Yes which is why I consistently describe the Israeli presence as BELLIGERENT MILITARY OCCUPATION.


    Yes, The UNSC vetoed it, rendering the UNGA null and void. Apparently you think something that is null and void is somehow "binding".
    Seems you are perfectly okay with other UNSC votes but not this one.
     
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    "King" Herod did not rule ..... "Israel". You're just making it all up.

    Being the occupier doesn't mean you got sovereignty. Get real.

    The US vetoed something completely different in the UNSC, than what the UNGA voted for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2018
  16. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    Personally, it has nothing to do with those whom people refer to as Arabs (they are not Arabs by the way), for me it has much to do with Israel being the proverbial Albatross around the neck of this country. Also, it has to do with the reality that that modern-day Israelis are not the same people of the Torah, and they know it. The modern-day Israelis, are from Germany, Russia, France, England and other European nations. And no, I am not venturing into the foolishness of the so-called Hebrew-Israelites, I am going by historical events when I say that the modern-day Israelis are not at all the Israelites of old, not in the least are they. Before 1948, some of the historical Israelites lived in that area and they really had no problems with the Heshemites and other Indo-Caucasian tribes who dwelled in that area. It was not until England and these United States started to back and finance Israel for their own Geo-political madness that there began problems with the aforementioned Indo-Caucasian tribes of that area. What I have mentioned is only a portion of why I personally dislike Israel.
     
  17. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    Do you really know what a Semite actually is?
    Semite:
    : a member of any of a number of peoples of ancient southwestern Asia including the Akkadians, Phoenicians, Hebrews, and Arabs: a descendant of these peoples
    : a member of a modern people speaking a Semitic language
    Europeans ARE NOT Semites, regardless to the fantasy world that many like to existence and play in.

    Now, if Semitic languages are spoken in large by people who are not of European extraction, it is proper to surmise that Semitic people are not Europeans. If you want to take the route of languages spoken by a small segment of Europeans, that you must say that Swahilis, Vietnamese, Cambodians, Samoans, etc are also European, because after all, a small segment of Europeans speak those languages.
     
  18. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    I agree, this somewhat reminds me of Hip-Hop, marijuana usage, criminality and the like being synonymous with Black behavior, i.e., Black characteristics. It is frustrating but nothing can be done about it, many have the unsavory habit of group-think when it comes to anyone who is not them or like them.
     
  19. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    Another whining "woe is me" propaganda piece, this reminds me of the recent rumor that President Trump labelled certain nations "S*hit holes" lies, rumors and a whining-fest; it all makes me sick.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  20. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    AltLightPride, thank you for such a matter of factly post, that drive to the central core of the issue of hatred for Israel and the practiced double standard by the sociopathic and psychopathic people who seem to dominate most discourses in modern-day America, be they on the Left or the Right. Again, thank you for your post. :applause::applause::salute:
     
  21. ARDY

    ARDY Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Ron
    Actually, i doubt many countries care so much about this.

    Imo, countries dislike the nation of israel due to an attitude of entitlement to special treatment. I mean, is there any nation who would seriously present their 4000 year old covenant with god as relevant. Most nations also do not consider borders from 1000’s of years ago as a determinative of modern borders.
     
  22. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    Correct me if I am wrong, but Palestine was mentioned inn the Lord Balfour Declaration:
    As plain as day, Palestine is mentioned so it was recognized by the British Crown and government in 19 and 17.:bye:
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2018
  23. Brexx

    Brexx Well-Known Member

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    It was a territory commonly referred to as Palestine. It was not a country.
     
    Zhivago likes this.
  24. fmw

    fmw Well-Known Member

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    A territory connected to what country? It issued currency and postage stamps.
     
  25. AlifQadr

    AlifQadr Well-Known Member

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    The point that was made is that there was in fact a Palestine, recognized and acknowledged long before there was an Israel. Even if you want to go "Biblical", there was a Palestine. The only point that I was making is that there was a Palestine, even to the effect of Lord Balfour of England recognizing such.
     

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