Why is Mitch McConnell refusing to subpoena any documents and witnesses?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    May 15, 2008
    Messages:
    28,242
    Likes Received:
    9,153
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    For a Non-Trumpist you sure have his talking points down.
     
  2. Bluesguy

    Bluesguy Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    104,836
    Likes Received:
    17,003
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    No I have the facts and you seem unable to discuss them rather thinking just assign labels to people somehow is rebuttal.
     
  3. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    22,500
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That reply makes no sense. Also, no other Trump fan responded to my post. They know the truth when they see it.

    Close your eyes and imagine this. Trump invited foreign interference in our Presidential election again -- the first time in 2016. Trump tried to bribe a foreign leader. Trump completely ignores Congress (Obstruction of Congress). Trump is declared innocent of all charges by the Republican Senate.

    Trump is elected to another four years in office without the concerns of reelection which dominated his persona since Jan. 21, 2017 the first time.

    He would be the most powerful man on the planet, and he would be unleashed. Already he ignores the American people. Answering only to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and "Fox and Friends," he avoids press conferences and the White House press corps. Now we add Congress to the list. He will simply ignore what our representatives do and say. Already, Trump has hijacked the power of the purse, thanks to a complicit Congress.

    He will rule with complete impunity for four more years (or more). That is the power the Senate will give him, and why? Because they are scared of Trump's base.

    The irony is, I don't think his base will like what will happen. They don't want it to happen.

    But they enabled it! The real Pandora's Box. The real be careful what you wish for! Does McConnell really wnat this?
     
  4. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    48,880
    Likes Received:
    6,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is why they need to be called.
    That is what a trial is all about. Get testimony into records so decisions can be made.
     
  5. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    36,374
    Likes Received:
    7,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Do you not ever grow weary of secreting that same humongous pile of horse crap? Yep did not invite any one to interfere in the election. I'm not quite sure which is worse, that you continue to promulgate discredited bilge or that you might possibly actually believe it.
     
  6. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    36,374
    Likes Received:
    7,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope a trial is about determing the case before you. It is not about going out and making another case. That's up to the investigators to do before hand.
     
  7. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    48,880
    Likes Received:
    6,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The case is there.
    Abuse of power and obstruction of Justice.

    Now evidence needs to be presented to see if the case leads to guilty or not guilty.
     
  8. 61falcon

    61falcon Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2018
    Messages:
    10,230
    Likes Received:
    5,081
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    MORE IMPORTANTLY why is he scheduling the start of proceedings at 1:00P.M. so that the trial runs LATE into the night????Is he afraid of what America may see???
     
  9. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    22,500
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump incriminated himself and there is an abundance of direct evidence. This is a quote directly from the July 25 phone call, and it comes soon after Trump said, “I would like you to do us a favor, though.” That statement comes right after Zelensky expressed interest in buying Javelin missiles. This is what Trump said.

    Good because I· heard you had a prosecutor who· was very good and he was shut down and that's really unfair. A lot of people are talking about that, the way they shut your very good prosecutor down and you had some very bad people involved. Mr. Giuliani is a highly respected man. He was the mayor bf New York City, a great mayor, and I would like him to call you. I will ask him to call you along with the Attorney General.· :Rudy very much knows what's happening and he is a very capable guy. If you could speak to him that would be great. The former ambassador from the United States,· the woman., was bad news and the people she was dealing with in.the Ukraine.were bad news so I jtist want to_let you know that. The other thing, there's a lot of.talk about Biden's son,. that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great.Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you ·can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me.

    Trump's chief of staff admitted to quid pro quo.

    “What you’re describing is a quid pro quo,” asserted the reporter. “We do that all the time,” replied Mulvaney. “Did he also mention to me the corruption related to the DNC server? Absolutely. No question about it. But that’s it. That’s why we held up the money … I have news for everybody: Get over it. There’s going to be political influence in foreign policy.” http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/10/mulvaney-ukraine-get-over-it.html

    After the July 25 phone call with Zelensky, as he usually does, Trump doubled down by asking again for foreign intervention in our elections. On Oct. 3, in a news conference on the White House lawn, he called on Ukraine and China to look into his chief rival's affairs, Joe Biden.

    “If they were honest about it, they would start a major investigation into the Bidens,” Trump said when asked what he wanted Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky to do about the former veep and his son.

    “They should investigate the Bidens,” Trump said. “Likewise, China should start an investigation into the Bidens, because what happened in China is just about as bad as what happened with Ukraine.”

    https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/03/trump-calls-for-ukraine-china-to-investigate-the-bidens.html
     
  10. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    36,374
    Likes Received:
    7,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Nope obstruction of Justice is not on the table a very likely nebulous and constitutionally dubious obstruction of Congress is. The other charge is Constitution dubious and more than a bit vacuous as well
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2020
  11. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Messages:
    22,500
    Likes Received:
    5,486
    Trophy Points:
    113
    That is ridiculous. Are you getting your info from the White House website?

    Trials do not make up a case. A trial is where the results of the investigations is presented, where evidence is presented, and opening statements are not evidence. They preview the evidence.
     
  12. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    48,880
    Likes Received:
    6,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry. Yes. Obstruction of Congress.
    Any my point stands.
    The case is presented.
    Now evidence for and against is brought out at trial.
     
  13. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    36,374
    Likes Received:
    7,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gee that's what I said. You had your investigation. It is neither the Senate's fault nor the president's that the house did a piss poor job.
     
    Red Lily likes this.
  14. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    36,374
    Likes Received:
    7,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    The investigators and prosecutors are supposed to collect the evidence and bring it to court. It is not the court's job to depose witnesses that neither the prosecution nor the defense disclosed in pre trial hearings or during the investigations
     
  15. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2013
    Messages:
    24,309
    Likes Received:
    6,803
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    What ARE High Crimes and Misdemeanors?
    But the WH has obstructed the House as much as they possibly can in regard to the bolded from day one. Now this very obstruction is to become their main defense? Indeed and why not, it's been so from the beginning, since the Republicans would have called for a "speedy trial" had the House actually taken the time to go through all the illegal delays and obvious lies that were being thrown up to block them. It's like Trump's defense for anything, lie, deny and bully. Most people are repelled by such obvious chicanery and blatant dishonesty but Trumpers eat it with a spoon
     
  16. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2010
    Messages:
    48,880
    Likes Received:
    6,640
    Trophy Points:
    113
    And aren't D's asking for such things? A witness list?

    Isn't it hard to conduct a trial without witnesses?
     
  17. garyd

    garyd Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    36,374
    Likes Received:
    7,001
    Trophy Points:
    113
    We've already heard from a slew of witnesses. We have their testimony, such as it is, on record. This is what the house managers will present. If they wanted more they should have done what they needed to do to obtain them before bringing their case to the Senate.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    Red Lily and LoneStarGal like this.
  18. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    2,425
    Likes Received:
    3,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    McConnell is not refusing to call witnesses. Senators will vote whether to call witnesses during Phase II of the trial if they wish.

    Seeing as how the hashtag BidenIsCorrupt is trending on Twitter right now, maybe it is a good idea if the Senate votes to call Joe and Hunter forward to testify.....plus perhaps fact-witnesses Adam Schiff and the whistleblower.

    Or, maybe after Phase I of the trial, Senators might decide by non-partisan agreement that no additional testimony is necessary.
     
  19. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    20,767
    Likes Received:
    9,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Apparently, it's because CJ Roberts can't get over to the Hill until then. That said, the reason McTreason has set the rules so the arguments must be made in 2 days is so much of it will happen in the dead of night..........out of the sight of most Americans. This is exactly the kind of bullshyte everyone expected from McTurtle, who has done more to degrade comity in the Senate than any person who has ever lived.
     
    Aleksander Ulyanov likes this.
  20. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    20,767
    Likes Received:
    9,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Trump’s lawyers, Senate GOP allies work privately to ensure Bolton does not testify publicly
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...c67ef0-3bae-11ea-8872-5df698785a4e_story.html

    "President Trump’s legal defense team and Senate GOP allies are quietly gaming out contingency plans should Democrats win enough votes to force witnesses to testify in the impeachment trial, including an effort to keep former national security adviser John Bolton from the spotlight, according to multiple officials familiar with the discussions.

    While Republicans continue to express confidence that Democrats will fail to persuade four GOP lawmakers to break ranks with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.), who has opposed calling any witnesses in the trial, they are readying a Plan B just in case — underscoring how uncertain they are about prevailing in a showdown over witnesses and Bolton’s possible testimony.

    One option being discussed, according to a senior administration official, would be to move Bolton’s testimony to a classified setting because of national security concerns, ensuring that it is not public."
     
    Aleksander Ulyanov likes this.
  21. Kal'Stang

    Kal'Stang Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2015
    Messages:
    1,991
    Likes Received:
    1,448
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Like it or not going to the courts is not "obstruction" in any legal sense of the word. It might be good for the rhetoric to sway low info voters, but it doesn't work on those that are more informed. And the President does have the right to make Congress go through the courts to enforce their subpoena's because Congress does not get to decide whether their subpoena's are enforceable or not. Only the courts can decide that. That is why Congress has always gone through the courts to enforce their subpoena's when a President refuses to give them information, even in the face of a subpoena. That is the way that it has been for our entire history.

    Now if the Courts had ruled in Congresses favor (a likely situation) and Trump still refused then, and only then, would he be guilty of obstruction and would be a valid reason to impeach him on.

    It is not Trump's fault, or anyone else's that the Dems refused to go through the courts and instead rushed these articles through as fast as they possibly could.
     
    LoneStarGal likes this.
  22. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    2,425
    Likes Received:
    3,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    It's not like we still communicate by Teletype machine. Anyone who wants to watch every minute of the trial can do so by replaying it in its entirety on C-SPAN, YouTube, or other miraculous modern venues.

    ...for those who aren't really interested, CNN/MSNBC and the blogosphere will cherry pick the best left-wing talking points to parrot endlessly while ignoring anything which might be positives for Trump's defense. Vice versa for Fox cherry picking only Trump positives.

    Most people aren't really interested in the "whole show".
     
  23. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    20,767
    Likes Received:
    9,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Positives for Trump's defense? What would those be? If there were any positives they would have been presented during the House inquiry. Or made public by the right wing media spin machine.
    McTreason's schedule is set up to rush the procedure thru as quickly as possible with little to no evidence or witness testimony................because absolutely everyone understands ALL THE EVIDENCE POINTS TO TRUMP'S GUILT. ALL OF IT.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    Aleksander Ulyanov likes this.
  24. LoneStarGal

    LoneStarGal Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2019
    Messages:
    2,425
    Likes Received:
    3,382
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Trump's attorneys were not allowed to attend Schiff's private hearings. Neither were House Republicans allowed to call witnesses in Trump's defense.

    The Senate trial is the first time Trump is allowed to defend himself against the purely partisan allegations. It's the first, and only, opportunity for a fair process where both sides get to speak.
     
    Well Bonded likes this.
  25. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Banned Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2017
    Messages:
    20,767
    Likes Received:
    9,790
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Nope. It is shocking that you folks believe in these complete falsehoods. Attributable to the 24/7 lies of right wing media.

    House Judiciary Panel Asks Trump if He Will Present Impeachment Defense
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/29/...p-if-he-will-present-impeachment-defense.html

    WASHINGTON — The chairman of the House Judiciary Committee asked President Trump on Friday whether he intends to mount a defense during the committee’s consideration of impeachment articles, setting a deadline of next Friday for Mr. Trump and his lawyers to decide if they will present evidence or call witnesses.

    In a letter to the president, Representative Jerrold Nadler, Democrat of New York and the committee chairman, said Mr. Trump has the right to review the evidence against him, ask questions of his accusers during public hearings that begin next week and present evidence and request witness testimony.

    “Please provide the committee with notice of whether your counsel intends to participate, specifying which of the privileges your counsel seeks to exercise,” Mr. Nadler wrote. He said the deadline for responding is 5 p.m. on Dec. 6.
    ............................................................................................................

    White House declines to be involved in House impeachment inquiry, leaving defense to Republican lawmakers
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...arings-white-house-trump-declines-participate
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2020
    Aleksander Ulyanov likes this.

Share This Page