Why kill the innocent?

Discussion in 'Abortion' started by Thrasos, Mar 4, 2020.

  1. Thrasos

    Thrasos Newly Registered

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    Abortion is one of the most terrible and evil things to do to a unborn baby. Abortion has been a large problem for a long time, and there have been many attempts to make it illegal. Sadly, it has been thwarted by liberals who believe that the mother has all the rights to do whatever they want to their unborn child. The majority of abortion deaths are from young couples or teenagers that have sex in their life before they are married or before they have a job to support them. Abortion needs to become illegal. In the Bible, it says every human has rights, and the fetus inside the mothers womb cannot/should not be killed because the unborn baby has rights. It is very sad that abortion is still legal and that there are people who wish to preform the terrible act. It is very sad, and it shouldn’t be that way. Every human bring has rights, and does not deserve to be killed. Now, being a Christian and conservative, I believe that this is one of the most horrible and evil things in the world. Now, for those of you who believe that it’s the mothers choice, it’s not. It’s her fault she had kids before she was married, before she had a job. A lot of abortions come from families not being able to support their child. Now, a lot of you may be thinking that it can sometimes be a reasonable thing because of other reasons, but even that is bad. The women who has kids before she gets married is her problem, and she has no right to kill the human baby. It’s also sad that you would have to live with that, killing your first child. The way people should do it is have the child, and TRY to at least help them the best you can, and if you absolutely cant, there is such thing as adoption... FIGURE IT OUT! It’s not that hard to save your kid instead of spending thousands of dollars to kill it.
     
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  2. Meta777

    Meta777 Moderator Staff Member

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    If anyone really wants any sort of change to happen on the abortion issue, then its going to take compromise.
    No one side, no one person, can honestly expect to get 100% of what they would like to see on an issue like this,
    unless perhaps if that person's position happens to be smack dab in the middle of where everyone else is.

    And on that note, the following is an abortion compromise proposal that a bunch of us here at politicalforum came up with a while ago after having a Ranked vote on the subject in order to figure out where the consensus was. Would something like this be acceptable to you?
    And even if its not your ideal, would it at least be acceptable to you as a compromise on the matter?

    http://www.politicalforum.com/index.php?threads/pf-abortion-reform-compromise.550627/
    -Meta
     
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  3. Thrasos

    Thrasos Newly Registered

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    Hello Meta,
    I understand what you are saying. I was pretty headstrong and aggressive when I wrote that. I understand that I wasn’t exactly clear that I would love a compromise. Though, only under some circumstances. If a women/teenager was about to have a kid that wasn’t from her boyfriend/husband, that’s different. Now, if abortion was banned for couples that are married and for people that are dating, that would make this whole abortion problem so much better. But, even so, so many innocent babies are getting killed.
     
  4. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Your argument contains a big assumed premise fallacy. That at all stages of pregnancy - a human exists.

    Appealing to the Bible - doesn't work - our laws are based on secular principles - but even if we were to accept the Bible as a legitimate argument - you haven't made one ? Only stated that the Bible says that humans have rights. Agreed :)

    What you have not done is shown that a human exists at conception such that this entity should be given rights - including the right to life.
     
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  5. Doofenshmirtz

    Doofenshmirtz Well-Known Member Donor

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    Abortion laws failed long before the internet and abortion drugs. Please tell us how you would address:

    Medical tourism
    Abortion drugs
    Black market abortions

    All I ask is that you don't borrow any arguments from gun grabbing liberals like "if it saves only one life..."
     
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  6. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    Um. Well start by explaining how an embryo, which has no mind or conscious existence, can be considered a being at all?
     
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  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    60% of abortions are obtained by women in their 20's, 59% of the women have children, 49% live below the poverty line. The rate of abortions remain the same whether legal or illegal it is just more dangerous for the woman. The only proven method of reducing the abortion rate is reliable available birth control and social safety net measures.
    Are the anti-abortion people pushing those or are they just crying and stomping their feet?
     
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  8. Ritter

    Ritter Banned

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    Hmm... And what is the most terrible thing?

    Are you really sure it is the abortion that you have problems with? ;)

    That is a dishonest representation of the opponent's position. Try to steelman instead of strawmanning. That way people will take you more seriously and be friendlier in addressing your view.

    Aha! So, it is not abortion that is your problem afterall? ;)

    And even as a man of God, you want to hand over God's power to the State?

    No one wishes to have an abortion.

    Do unwillingly pregnant women have rights?

    Isn't it a bit hypocritical for a Conservative to demand Papa Government to step in and regulate individual autonomy?

    Not to play semantic games, but;
    1. If she has not yet given birth she is technically not yet a mother.
    2. If she has not yet given birth, she does not yet have kids.

    You do know abortion happens before birth, right?

    My parents were never married. Is my mother a bad person? :(

    What if it is the third? :D

    Or just use contraceptives. But, I assume you oppose them for the same reason you oppose abortion - You hate the fact people are having sex solely for the sake of an orgasm.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  9. XploreR

    XploreR Well-Known Member

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    Trump just demonstrated how fake the title "Pro-Life" is under the current Republican banner, when he refused to allow millions of poor Americans to register for medical coverage under the existing Affordable Care Act, so they could have access to help with the Coronavirus Pandemic. Trump single-handedly deprived several million American families (including children & the elderly) from help in a life-threatening pandemic. If this is what Republicans call "Pro_Life," I call it for what it is--hypocrisy.
     
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  10. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

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    The Bible never treats a foetus as a person. Indeed the laws in Exodus make it clear that the death of a foetus was considered a loss of property to be expiated by the payment of a fine.
     
  11. Zeffy

    Zeffy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. No compromise. Abortion at any time for any reason.
     
  12. cd8ed

    cd8ed Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why? Because women should not be unwilling incubators to the state.

    There is an interesting thread about womb implants in another sub forum and could eventually lead to fetal removal and implementation into a willing person or even an artificial womb, would you support publicly funded transplantation to end abortion?

    Also, Religious justification should not be used as justification for laws — several religious beliefs would mandate the open culling of your religious preference so you might want to examine your position as to not set precedent.
     
  13. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, Freedom can work both ways. Abortion can be legal, while more and more people should view abortion as murder.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  14. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    Abortion should be legal.

    But more people should view murder as murder.
     
  15. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    Abortion isn't murder, it is a legal medical procedure.
     
  16. CCitizen

    CCitizen Well-Known Member

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    It's both. Women have a right to abortion. Many or most religious people view abortion as murder. They have a right to express their views.
     
  17. Blaster3

    Blaster3 Well-Known Member

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    :applause:
    well said...
     
  18. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    Bishop Thomas Tobin

    @ThomasJTobin1

    ·
    May 7

    "Just saw a headline in a Catholic newspaper with the phrase “pro-abortion Catholic.” Sorry. That’s a contradiction in terms. You can’t be a Catholic, at least not an authentic one, and be 'pro-abortion.' Or 'pro-choice.' It’s the same thing."

    Tobin is bishop of the Diocese of Providence, RI, and refuses communion to politicians who are pro-aborts or pro-choice, and has ordered the priests of his diocese to do likewise.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
  19. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

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    He is wrong to do so.
     
  20. yabberefugee

    yabberefugee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I really believe the abortion issue can only be changed by reaching the hearts of Americans, by recognizing God had a plan for each individual before they were conceived and values them highly.
     
  21. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    He is a churchman, obedient to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, its laws, and his faith tradition with its documents going back to the first century. What any government thinks obligates him to nothing at all.
     
  22. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

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    Jesus lived in a time when abortion was endemic. He never once commented on it. Why? Because under Jewish law a foetus is not a human until birth.
     
  23. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    Abortion was not endemic among the society Jesus was born into. A childless Jewish woman was marked as having a lack, and considered unblessed. A Jewish woman with a dozen children was marked as very blessed.
     
  24. kiwimac

    kiwimac Well-Known Member

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    You do remember that Palestine was a Greco-Roman state?
     
  25. jay runner

    jay runner Well-Known Member

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    The Jews were a conquered people, but the religion, customs, and traditions of the Jews were not touched because sufficient taxes arrived regularly in Rome for Augustus and then Tiberius during the life of Jesus. The Romans disliked Jews, but liked the revenue.

    It was not until the siege of Jerusalem in 70, and more intensely after the bar Kochba revolt in 132 that the Romans chose to interfere seriously with the Jewish religion.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2020

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