Why the Ethan’s (the Shooter) parents are innocent.

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Joe knows, Dec 4, 2021.

  1. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    As we all know the parents of the recent mass shooting are being charged with manslaughter. The DA has made her statements indicating that the timeline somehow proves guilt. So let’s go over it.

    I also found this article that breaks down the time frame and actions of the parents and shooter very well. I will be quoting from this article.

    https://amp.freep.com/amp/8854011002

    here is the time line of the Text messages

    First of all there is absolutely nothing wrong with buying your kids guns. I have done this. I started my oldest shooting at the age of 4 and a half. The gun he learned on was a single shot .22 that I bought for him (yes it’s his). This is also not illegal. Don’t believe me? Here’s a picture from the ATF website.

    624A45A9-E910-40B1-9EB8-26D19D125821.png

    I’m sure this is being exploited to try and underline the fact that the parents bought this gun for him and they also referenced the gun as his. Like I already shown, this is not illegal and they were obviously supervising him while he had the gun.

    Since when did searching ammo require an age verification like porn? He can’t buy it anyway. But with that aside my kids also look for ammo on line. One loves waterfowl hunting which requires steel shot by federal law. That’s hard to find right now so he will search it and let me know if any is online for good prices. Searching for ammo is not indicative of a mass shooter.

    Secondly, why would the mom be mad at her son? He done absolutely nothing illegal or outside of common practice with kids who are learning to shoot. The teacher would likely report my kid if that’s all it took. If my kid done that and I was called in to the school I would likely tell them that he done nothing wrong and I would lecture them for wasting my time. I also would reassure my kid that he done nothing wrong at all.

    This may be the most questionable allegation made. But you must remember that this allegation is coming from the DA. So let’s point out the rest of the DA’s timeline claim before I address this fully.

    but I will say that while that drawing is not criminal it most definitely is disturbing and if this action alone justifies manslaughter for the parents it should likewise justify manslaughter for the school because all parties allowed him to stay.

    Let’s continue with this time line for the remainder of the day.

    The don't do it text could mean don’t kill yourself for all we know. It was sent after the shooting was over. Not sure why they are focusing on that text. But let’s address everything on 30th now.

    The DA wants you to believe the gun was accessible to Ethan. It may have been and it may not have been. The suspects lawyers are claiming the gun was locked up and the DA is making a circus of the case. If the gun was in fact locked up it does show less neglect. However there is no law requiring you to do so. So the point is moot. Although, they still claim it was locked article as follows

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/ethan-crumbley-parents-lawyers-gun-prosecution

    feel free to pick your side on the topic of being locked up because this claim is obviously being disputed. I however error on the side of innocence because that’s what the constitution prescribes. But keep in mind that if the DA has come out and suggested that the pack should have been checked and that the gun was not locked up, and it comes out that there was a lock it totally ruins her credibility.

    If there was so much as a trigger lock on the gun she is obviously exploiting innocent people with lies. So I wouldn’t be quick to judge on the locking comment. All guns come with trigger or action locks. It’s required by law.

    The timeline further proves that the parents believed the gun to be safe. After they heard of the shooting they checked to make sure their gun was still where they claimed they locked it up at. Then they called the police to identify their son as the likely shooter. I don’t think this is anything other than shocked parents as of now.


    ———————————//////

    Now let me say where I don’t agree with actions. If my kid drew a picture like that his gun would no longer be his. He would also get some good punishment and I definitely would get him professional help. However, I likely wouldn’t have pulled him out of school unless the school required it. I would want him to learn still even if he was going to a shrink after school.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  2. Rampart

    Rampart Well-Known Member

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    "Just got my new beauty today," paired with heart emojis next to a photo of a similar looking gun"

    that is not normal and his parents certainly knew it.
     
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  3. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    Me and my boy went shooting his new gun I bought him for his birthday last year. He was shooting away and I asked him “Do you like your gun?”. He put down the gun and looked up at me and said “I don’t like the gun, I love the gun”.

    liking guns is probably more normal than you think. I’ve posted pictures of my guns on gun forums. I’ve said how much I like them. Trust me, loving your gun is normal. It’s also good because you will take care of it.

    as far as that being indicative of a mass shooter? Or even being disturbing, not one bit.
     
  4. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    I suppose we'll have to wait and find out if the parents are convicted. But buying such a weapon for a child is just plain wrong. It's not a hunting weapon and there doesn't seem to be anything to indicate that the family hunted. If the boy could get hold of the weapon without his parents consent then it wasn't properly secured so I should think that the parents are responsible. However, the courts will decide.
     
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  5. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    What I find most upsetting by this shooting is that there were warning signs. Clear warning signs. Yet the school left the responsibility with the parents and the parents did nothing. I think both should be held legally responsible for their parts.
     
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  6. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    People get ahold of things they weren’t meant to every day. It’s also not against the law to buy your kid a gun not designed for hunting. It can still be used for sport shooting.
     
  7. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    To you and I this is not normal. In gun lovers' world, this is perfectly normal. See the crude names the NRA called their disciples in a closed-door meeting. They know, yet they still do the bidding for the crazies. The "self defense" argument is just a straw man. For most, guns are a hobby that eventually comes with a strong emotional attachment to the subject of the hobby.
     
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  8. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    And doesn’t result in anyone dead or injured. You forgot that part.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  9. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    You were just lucky that your kids didn't go crazy and use the guns you bought for them inappropriately. Then, you attribute it to skill. Typical, we see this fallacy in stock market timing all the time. In reality, nobody should buy a gun as a toy for anyone under-aged PERIOD. No matter how much you want to rationalize it.

    Personal story: My son had a suicide attempt at the age of 13. We never saw it coming, it was a total shock to us. Boy, were we glad that we didn't have a gun in the house that day. Since then, he was perfectly fine. We still don;t know what happened, maybe he overdosed on Red Bull...

    The truth is, as much as you think you know your children, you really don't. There just could be an emotional crisis they hide from you, and then they look to the gun as a solution. Not in my house, no guns around.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  10. ShadowX

    ShadowX Well-Known Member

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    This kid got hyper bullied and wanted to end it. He ****ed up bad. That’s what this is. That’s what most of them are.

    He should have just learned juijitsu but it’s past that now.
     
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  11. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    I used to draw pictures of guns in school. Oddly enough I went on to never bring one to school and use it.
     
  12. Aleksander Ulyanov

    Aleksander Ulyanov Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Gun lovers see themselves as the old Samurai of the Edo Period. They have the right of Kirisute Gomen "to cut down and walk away". They are the "good guys with guns" who protect us all by killing anyone they feel like. This is why they so incessantly defend the Zimmermans and Dylan Roofs. These, to them, are not aberrant madmen, they are True Americans, Living the Dream
     
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  13. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Guns are supposed to be secured - they're not just 'things', they're lethal weapons. I didn't say it was illegal, I said it was wrong. Parents should make the correct choices for their children.
     
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  14. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    I agree that no gun is a toy. That’s a fact no matter the age. My kids are not grown up yet. My oldest is 13. My youngest is 8. They all have their own guns and they all know them not to be toys and don’t have free access. They are locked in a safe and only come out when they are being supervised by me. It also looks like this was the intent of these parents being they claim the gun was locked (or so they claim).

    I do disagree with the choice of gun. I think a kid should prove their safety ability with a gun like a single shot, lever, bolt, or pump action before ever touching a semi auto. But there is no law saying otherwise to incriminate these parents on for that choice nor should there be.

    I know a kid that was 17 and committed suicide with a .22 revolver. It’s sad for sure. I feel for your story. However guns are more often legally used by kids more so than illegally used.
     
  15. FatBack

    FatBack Well-Known Member

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    Nothing but hyperbolic opinions and libel, completely devoid of facts or any comments on the legalities of this case.
     
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  16. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    It was secured as in locked up according to the defense. He got it somehow, but the how is not known yet. Even if there was an action lock on it he would have had to break it somehow. If it was a locking drawer he would have had to break it or unlock it. The point is these parents didn’t commit a crime.
     
  17. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    From what I've seen, the school did what it was supposed to do. Schools are somewhat limited in their power to take actions. The student's behaviors were not terribly unusual for public schools. Schools can call the parents and make recommendations, but unless there has been a specific threat, it can do little else.
     
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  18. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    It's not the guns -- people have owned guns for as long as there has been a USA. It's the changing culture we live in. There was a time when the movies never showed a person being shot. Now look at all the gory movies. There was a time when killing a baby was a crime. Now look at all the abortions performed. People are killed by guns, knives, baseball bats, vehicles, poison, fists -- people kill people. Don't just focus on guns. Our culture has lessened the value of a human life. In 1957 as a junior I brought a lever action .22 rifle to my high school and demonstrated to the class how to dismantle and clean it. You could not do this today, so ask yourself why? Guns have not changed.
     
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  19. Pants

    Pants Well-Known Member

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    I'm not an expert on the school's legal responsibility, but I would think this would be an excellent opportunity for them to suspend him until counseling was secured and sessions taken place. If I were a parent at that school, I would certainly be questioning the judgment shown by them. And I think we'll see that coming from parents who lost children that day.
     
  20. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    I suppose the defence would say that. It's supposed to be in a safe without the ammo, isn't it?
     
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  21. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    No. In your home there are no storage laws. In travel some states require the gun to be locked with ammo in a separate case. Some states however allow you to have it fully loaded in travel. As far as storage in the house with this state there are no storage laws.
     
  22. Adfundum

    Adfundum Moderator Staff Member Donor

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    More than likely, they will get flooded with a lot of angry parents. Schools can't suspend students without evidence. Even though there were rumors of the boy's behaviors, and the drawing that got him sent to the office, those things aren't considered evidence enough to suspend a student. As I said previously, that kind of stuff is much more common that we are aware of, mostly because schools can't go public with that sort of information. Pretty much all the schools can do in cases like this is to talk to the student and make recommendations to the parents. This young man's parents sent him back to class.

    It's really not a surprise that when most parents are informed of their children's behaviors, especially the really bad stuff, they get angry and defensive. They refuse to accept that their child is a problem child. After that, they start to blame the teachers, the school, and other students. That seems to be what this young man's parents did.

    Schools are expected to take action but are not given the right kind of legal authority to do so.
     
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  23. Quantum Nerd

    Quantum Nerd Well-Known Member

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    If all parents were responsible gun owners like you. Unfortunately, a lot of them aren't. Sorry to hear about the kid you know who committed suicide.

    Personally, I am split on the gun ownership issue. I have a couple of good friends who are hunters. They are very responsible gun owners and teach their kids gun safety etc. They'd never give a gun as a Christmas present to their kids. They enjoy to hunt with their kids, just they liked to hunt with their dad. It is a male bonding experience that I can relate to, even though I don't engage in it. Unfortunately, the easiest way for dads to talk to their sons is through this kind of stuff. Guns, sports, etc. For me, I talk to my 16 year old son about football, not much about anything else.

    With that said, I think something has to be done about the proliferation of guns. Most people think that guns used in crimes come through the "black market". However, somehow those guns first have to get into the black market. Guns are not specifically made for the black market. Rather, most of the guns ending up there were once a legal purchase by a responsible gun owner. That's how guns also get flooded into Mexico, contributing to their drug crime, and, in turn providing a driving force for illegal immigration. Most of those Mexican guns come from the US, again, once they were guns legally purchased. There needs to be some sort of tracking of guns. Heck, for cars the government knows every time one is bought or sold. I don't know why gun owners are against this, because it wouldn't affect those who are responsible.
     
  24. Joe knows

    Joe knows Newly Registered

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    I’m against that idea. The logic isn’t so hard to understand. Tracking guns will not prevent the wrongful use of guns. Being it won’t stop crimes or mass shootings they will pass another law that won’t work, then another, then another, then in the end they will go for confiscation. I refuse to allow that road to be taken.

    Many say that the left has no desire to confiscate but just pass common sense gun regulation. That’s not true. Beto has said “hell yeah we’re going to take your AR” just this last election. The election before that Hillary advocated for in her words “an Australian style gun but back program”. As most know that gun buy back program was a mandatory one. In other words a confiscation. That’s two election cycles in a row that the left has advocated for confiscation so I refuse to give them a legislative path to make it easier.
     

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