Wine, lobster, copper what's at stake in trade tensions with China?

Discussion in 'Australia, NZ, Pacific' started by scarlet witch, Nov 6, 2020.

  1. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    There's currently 20 tonnes of Australian lobster sitting on a tarmac in China...rotting away. China have banned billions in Australian exports and there are rumours that more bans are to follow. So far the $84 billion per year in iron ore we export to China have not yet been banned, apparently they still need this after all who can prepare for war without steel.

    https://www.smh.com.au/business/com...-trade-stoush-with-china-20201104-p56bki.html
     
    modernpaladin likes this.
  2. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Personally I think the aggressive stance from the Chinese are much more than simply "displeasure" with the Australian push against Chinese influence in its domestic affairs and the request for investigation into Corona virus.

    I believe the problem is that China have liquidity issues. Much (more than two thirds) of their foreign reserves are eurodollars and as the global economy collapsed these eurodollars have shrunk in value... they are after all debt instruments and only as good as the ability to repay debt.

    In addition to the eurodollar/foreign reserve issue demand worldwide have also collapse and demand worldwide basically equates to Chinese exports.

    Therefore the problem I believe is more about not having the foreign reserves to cover all their imports, which are substantial but also the collapse of their export markets. Of course they are happy for us to believe that they are simply being spiteful and petty and waging economic war because that way they save face.

     
  3. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    The liquidity problem is obviously not just affecting China, basically any country that do not have a swap line

    This article is not a good one, it doesn't even come close to mentioning the Eurodollar at the heart of the problem but I'll post it anyway to point out that countries with swap lines now have to behave the same as the US ... buying government bonds to weaken the currency and lower interest rates.

    The world's in a 'global liquidity trap'. What does that mean for Australia?

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-11-08/the-world-economy-is-in-a-global-liquidity-trap/12861324
     
  4. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I really should start a Bitcoin thread, here's Egypt now also turning to Bitcoin amidst the liquidity & currency issues affecting countries that do not have a swap line.

    The irony is these countries will probably be better off on the long term because the swap line countries will have to go into astronomical debt AND they'll be late adopters of Bitcoin buying in at much higher prices.

    How a Massive Devaluation of the Egyptian Pound Inspired a $100M Bitcoin ETP
    https://www.coindesk.com/devaluation-egyptian-pound-inspired-bitcoin-etp
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2020
  5. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    24,506
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd rather have us as a banana republic picking individual grains of rice out of rubbish bins than put even one cent into the coffers of the Chinese Communist Party.

    They can take their extortionate trade policy and shove it back up Winnie the Pooh's backside where it came from.
     
    modernpaladin and scarlet witch like this.
  6. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    I think the Chinese economic wonder have come to an end and it was unrealistic to think it could last forever anyway.
     
  7. modernpaladin

    modernpaladin Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2017
    Messages:
    27,700
    Likes Received:
    21,100
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    The US will make them the global #1 economic power again in short order, if our recent voter fraud doesn't get sorted out. I spose you Ozzies have good reason to be ridin with Biden- China will leave you alone for some more years if their US sugar daddy money starts rollin back in.

    ...til they build a few more aircraft carriers, of course.
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
  8. scarlet witch

    scarlet witch Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2016
    Messages:
    11,951
    Likes Received:
    7,714
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    No a Biden win will be very bad for us, we're going to doing backflips on almost every policy brought in over the last four years and likely to be incorporated into the corrupt Belt & Road to fill China's coffers...the globalist parasites will suck us, the Asian countries and Pacific islanders dry & steal all our fish.. The South China sea and Taiwan will be going to China and they now also have an axe to grind with Australia...so you can expect some seriously spiteful behaviour that will make these trade bans look like child's play. Any protection from the US will now probably also mean a "tribute" into the Biden pocket.

    The only hope we have is an alliance with our neighbours who are pretty much in the same boat, Germany made noises about China, perhaps they can assist.... not sure about Merkel though she's a globalist... you can only hope she finally realised what she signed on for... a bit like Macron's awakening
     
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2020
    modernpaladin likes this.
  9. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
  10. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Let's all buy Aussie copper and iron ore too! :rant:


    Or maybe :hmm:
    Australia should guide their economy toward a more internal one.

    It seems Australia has bipartisan globalism that sells the
    Aussie people, they can't. Economic Wimpism.


    Give tax preferences to products domestically produced.
    Especially sales tax so the consumer "feels it".
    Think BIG and get more land producing "food".
    How aboot
    Any Aussie product must be paid for before it leaves AussieLand.
    Problems of delivery becomes the buyer's problem,
    no longer Australia's
    :nana: China ;)

    Australia has a bounty of resources and can do much more
    to take care of itself and not rely on "them" so much.


    Moi :oldman:

    Neo Nationalist
    Support the New Nationalism





    Don't Further :flagcanada:ize
    Australia
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2021
  11. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Personally, I'm a free trader.
     
  12. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm a FAIR Trader
    Don't allow polluting factory sweat shops FREE Trade.
     
  13. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Too many special interests sail under the "fair trade" flag.
     
  14. Moi621

    Moi621 Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2013
    Messages:
    19,292
    Likes Received:
    7,606
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male

    Do YOU
    Remember when Doonesbury via

    https://readingdoonesbury.com/2018/04/13/doonesbury-goes-to-war-part-iii-phred/
    Phred the (VC) Terrorist becoming an
    entrepreneur in Vietnam making
    shoes for Nike with child labor?
    Also
    "BD ran into Phred, now a venture capitalist working with B.D.’s friend from the war, again while visiting Vietnam after the normalization of diplomatic relations, and Phred offered him a job as a performer at a Vietnam War-style theme park. "



    Such factory's products should face tariffs
    if not banned.


    And it took a comic strip to make
    it an issue now mostly forgotten.

    Along with pollution, day's wages that won't fill a rice bowl,
    extreme hours and working conditions.

    NO FREE TRADE
    FAIR TRADE!
    It is about "fair" competition with :flagus: labor
    and the GREENer factories that employ them.


    :rant: Don't Get Me Started :rant:


    Moi :oldman:


    Trump got tough on :flagcanada:
    Trade Abuses ignored previous 16 years!
     
  15. Jack Hays

    Jack Hays Well-Known Member Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2020
    Messages:
    27,379
    Likes Received:
    17,373
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    We disagree.
     
  16. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    On the plus side we are already starting to see some dividends from diversifying our export markets away from China. Barley growers have just announced some big sales to Mexico and Egypt. May not get quite the same price they got from China in the past but then neither country is going to suddenly slap down 80% tariffs on us either - that only hurts their own consumers. And apparently Chinese brewers are now having to import more expensive/poorer quality barley from other sources. So 2-3 years from now its an open question who'll be better off. I'm betting it's Australia. Looks like Pooh might have stuffed up.
     
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2021
  17. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2019
    Messages:
    4,516
    Likes Received:
    3,138
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    And I think we can afford to be generous and let China keep the 20 tonnes of rotting lobster they now have on their hands. I think it quite nicely sums up the current state of trade relations between us anyway.
     
  18. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2012
    Messages:
    24,506
    Likes Received:
    7,247
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    It's getting to the point where most Australians wouldn't mind dropping their household income by 50% just to tell China and Winnie the Pooh to go **** themselves.
     

Share This Page