Without God...

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by RoanokeIllinois, Jul 14, 2022.

  1. HereWeGoAgain

    HereWeGoAgain Well-Known Member

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    This where religion has become one of the greatest threats to humanity. It gives people false hope. It gives them an excuse to ignore the science and live in a fantasy world at the expense of everyone else. It left to run amok, religion would eventually destroy civilization.

    Maybe the people in the Southern US can pray to make it cooler.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
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  2. VotreAltesse

    VotreAltesse Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I'm not speaking of material goods. I grew up in a godless family, and to me the idea of god is mostly folklore, the church, just a place you go in when old people die.

    I knew some god-believer people who were interesting folks, who could be positive role-models but beside that most god-believers I knew were morbid, at best.

    I'm gratefull to life, I don't feel the need, neither see the reason to terrorize myself with the idea of an all-knowing entity. I'm aware that I have awesome parents and lucky to be born where I am, otherwise I wouldn't be alive to write those lines. The belief of god seems to me an uncessary source of guilt, pride or worries, even if I can respect or admire the spiritual path of some people.

    I think I suffered my fair share of things, obviously, there is always people who had it worse. Yet, I stood up, because I was convinced that despite that, breathing itself was a "blessing", no matter how much pain you could endure at that moment.

    That's what I mean when life is music. When we enjoy a beautifull song, we're just appreciating the beauty of the song, not afraid of its end, and just enjoying its existence and beauty.
     
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  3. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    More like transitioning from selfish to selfless. God or the concept has been around as long as man. Christianity was prophesied six thousand years ago, and came to fruition two thousand years ago. So we don't make this up. We hear of it, and read of it. For some it rings a bell of truth. And they embrace it because it is the perfecting of all good things in life unto an eternal continuance. It is to say that God lives, that life is probation, that we are to repent of evil, be baptized, be reborn of spirit and water and live according to the pleasure of our righteous judge and maker. It is simply a matter of conscience or the seeking of true justice. But it is all a matter of choice.
     
  4. Pixie

    Pixie Well-Known Member

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    That's fine. I can understand some see faith like this.
    But the ignore what I detest...the gross hypocrisy of clerical child abuse, the attempted éradication of other faiths and the intolérance of those who follow other paths those they "tolerate" as misguided. A superiority disregarding other mérits.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
  5. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    My god is bigger than your god…
    Yeah, good point for sure, but it’s not baking children in clay jars so they can deliver messages to gods after they turn into smoke. Maybe there’s a difference. I’ll let you know if I find one.
     
  6. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2022
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  7. edna kawabata

    edna kawabata Well-Known Member

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    Your opinion has just as much as validity as mine, since neither has any proof that "we would not know to love or honor or do any good thing" without a god, but yours sounds more like wishful thinking and mine like skepticism.
     
  8. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Well, skepticism can be a robust safeguard against deceit. But to be inclined towards a divine source of love, justice and all which is good, is hardly a fearsome thing in and of itself. I think that one can and should employ both skepticism and faith. Faith to the goal, and skepticism to remain on the straight and narrow, so as not to be lured away by deceit.

    But to hold the actual goal of divinity, perfection, and truth itself, in suspicion, is effectively to be deceived, robbing life of purpose beyond creaturisms. And thus trade away the eternal for the transitory, when they are already both in our holdings. In so doing, we fool ourselves...or allow ourselves to be fooled. We seem to think that to seek God, that the sun would cease to rise, the earth would cease to bear up its bounty, and our life would be destitute. But that isn't true. Our provisions would remain, and in seeking God we would increase in all aspects of our higher nature. That's what I think.
     
  9. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    That sounds great.

    But, the idea that there is a clear or agreed goal of divinity or perfection or what such a goal would even LOOK like or what the methodologies for that direction might be or who it is that is honestly pursuing such objectives deserves just as much examination and skepticism as any other component.

    There are very real reasons for separating religion from government. What religion does when it gets to lead the way can be a HORROR.

    In other words, skepticism is required in EVERY element and at all times - not just in sticking to some "straight and narrow" that somebody devised.
     
  10. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    I get your point. But the goal is for each person to find for themselves. It must call to and be inclined towards from within our hearts and souls. If that makes any sense. It isn't something that can be made into law, dictated or enforced in total. It is the sentiment expressed in the OP, that God is love, without which there would be no purpose to life. At any rate, the skepticism you apply, and that which one would hold in suspicion, would be ones own self. But I think it can be a sober quest as opposed to wearing rose colored glasses. Life is hard. And that keeps one sane.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
  11. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    The problem comes in when government takes action on the basis of a religion.

    For example, is religious belief an adequate justification for denying state marriage to same sex couples? Or, is religious belief an adequate justification for government to deny personal health decisions, including those involving pregnancy?
     
  12. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    The marriage issue isn't as much religious belief as it is conscience. All good laws/standards such as those against murder, rape, theft, etc., could also qualify as Christian standards. But that doesn't make it theocratic in nature. It makes us adherents to that which is true, light, and wise. Marriage is between a man and a woman. To propose otherwise is deviant, not fair and democratic. Otherwise, anyone who runs contrary to any law would make those laws unfair and undemocratic, as if death devalued life. It does not.
     
  13. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    So you either support Biblical standards for marriage, and the government imposing those "standards," or you are being a hypocrite. Which is it?
     
  14. WillReadmore

    WillReadmore Well-Known Member

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    "Murder, rape, theft, etc." all involve crimes against someone else.

    What you think of two people marrying is irrelevant.
     
  15. yardmeat

    yardmeat Well-Known Member

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    Here's a fun game: ask him if killing people for blasphemy is objectively wrong and deserving of death or not. Don't hold your breath for an answer, unless @Injeun has had a sudden change of heart.
     
  16. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Crimes are crimes because we say they are. Those who commit them say they are fitting. Public nudity, public pornography, having sex in public, prostitution, cursing a Judge in a courtroom, etc. do not have a physical victim. But they are against the law. Same sex marriage condones deviancy, undermines the family which is the foundation of civilization, is an insult to the dignity and consciences of others, and sets an awful example to children. It victimizes society.

    That said, this topic is about that God is love, without which life would have no purpose. Please don't extrapolate that to include the love of evil, or other wishy washy rationale.
     
  17. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    It would help if your read my post for its meaning rather than use it as a convenient segue for your pre fashioned shiv for which you have such fondness in its design. I think your post is mean, stupid, and wholly inappropriate.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
  18. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    That's so sad that anyone could fail to find or create purpose in life without looking to an imaginary celestial tyrant.
     
  19. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    The earlier the better too. It would help insulate people against Christian programming. Ever notice how the first Bible stories you hear about are usually the nice ones about hippy Jesus?
     
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  20. Injeun

    Injeun Well-Known Member

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    Apparently you are referring to a man who six thousand years ago was put to death for cursing and blaspheming the God who led them out of bondage. If God deemed it just, then who am I or anyone to say otherwise. I personally am astonished that God would have mercy or bless any of mankind.
     
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  21. GrayMan

    GrayMan Well-Known Member

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    Not "love". A more accurate interpretation is patience, acceptance, with detachment. I suppose it's a kind of love,but it's given a more inward focus while christ is a more outward focus with more attachment and meaning. Using today's language can cause confusion because we assert that the term love is used interchangeably even though the concept was used differently.
     
  22. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    A perfect demonstration of authoritarianism.

    Farming out your moral judgments is both lazy and immoral in my humble opinion. Mistaking obedience for morality doubly so.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
  23. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    None of us, not a single person, is deserving of blessings. God gives us blessings and mercy freely
     
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  24. Jolly Penguin

    Jolly Penguin Well-Known Member

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    Oh? So we can sin all the time and not lose any blessings, because Jesus pays for our sins, and God gives us blessings and mercy freely?
     
  25. mswan

    mswan Well-Known Member

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    No. That's the "once saved, always saved" belief. That's not me. Salvation is by Grace alone, but salvation can be lost.
     

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