Without God...

Logic would say that God is only an imaginary tyrant to those who aren't acquainted with him. That's not to say that there is no purpose in life without an acquaintance with God. But that it is made fuller.

Granted that over thousands of years, individuals and generations have come and gone without such knowledge. But Gods purposes continue to unfold for mankind and the earth overall. These are times of much greater knowledge, with acts of goodness as well as great evils. As this rolls on in mortality, my religion teaches that Gods plans are rolling on as well in the spirit world, such that those we esteem as lost in the past are yet engaged in the matter to varying degrees where they reside. Some ask why doesn't God live here so that we all know him and all will be well. But it is written that he will return and live here for a thousand years with those whom he has chosen. It may all seem disjointed and purposeless to us. But that's due to our blindness and judgment. Suffice it to say that the eternal Gods purposes are greater than our quaint little lives.

 

Amen.

 

Let's assume there is no God, what will change? Less wars, less diseases, less earthquakes, less hunger, less fires, less love, less sex, less happiness?

And now assume there is God, what will change? Less wars, less diseases, less earthquakes, less hunger, less fires, less love, less sex, less happiness?

 

Well, he is the ultimate authority and giver of life. Would you have him allow his people to slip back into bondage. What mercy would that be? Or perhaps vacate heaven to Satans will and design.

I trust in the God whom I know and who knows my heart. Would you have me lie instead? Your animus is towards a personage of your own scriptural construct, no different or less shallow than those who seek salvation in scripture rather than in a living God. You don't know God to say one way or another. That you do anyway, is mindless. If it is as you presume a fantasy, then why are you drawn into it. Would you fight over a Hollywood movie or the characters in a TV series?

 

Then it isn't freely given. You can't have it both ways.

 

So they want you to believe, and even if true, so what? Why should that mean you should bury your own moral compass or farm out your own moral decision making to those who claim to speak for him?

Do you not see the irony of that question? You are saying that we should enslave ourselves to God and not question him by our own moral judgments, and then you are asking me if I think people should slip back into bondage. It sounds to me that you are the one advocating for bondage, not I.

No. I am not judging anything of my own personal construct here, that's the point. If your God is all hippy Jesus or Budha like without the hatred or commands to do evil things, then more power to that. But if your God is fire and brimstone, hateful, vengeful, and commanding evil things, I feel a moral duty to call that out. The Bible contains both.

That depends. Do real people act and blindly follow whatever these Hollywood movie or TV characters tell them to do? If so, then yes. I most definitely would speak against such fictional characters, just as I speak against the fictional character that is Bible God when he is depicted as doing evil things and you make excuses for it or refuse to question it. It is quite different with those Christians who say those parts of the Bible are simply wrong and shouldn't be included, or who say OT God and Jesus are not the same person, etc.

 

With true repentance God's Grace is freely given.

 

Do you consider the "new birth" separate from salvation? If with salvation comes the new birth how is it possible to be unborn?

 

It's a theological difference that may never be resolved. I think that in practical terms it makes no difference, God is sovereign and his will prevails. IMO our obligation as Christians is to live our lives as closely as we can to the example of Jesus even when we don't fully understand. "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

 

I agree with most, but the "new birth/born again" is a major theological point of Christianity. No matter how much I disobey my earthly father I will always be his son by birth. I can't believe my new birth with my heavenly Father is less lasting than with my earthly father. So, either the new birth is tied to salvation or it's not.

 

I understand. I'm willing to just leave it to God. He will save whom He will save.

 

Calling it "save" is rather backwards when it is he himself doing the destruction.

 

God is 'interpreted' by man, man inserted himself as an acting proxy, God did no such thing, that is nonsense

 

all sun and no rain a desert doth make.

He himself?

what about calling out your contradictions where you claim a God that you claim to be fictional capable of doing things in the material world!

 

What a load of nonsense. I don't know about you, but my life is nothing but blessings. That's what Jesus was trying to tell us. The kingdom of heaven is within all of us, and always has been. All that fire and brimstone crap is entirely of your own making. If you believe you are not worthy, then it will be so. I believe I am worthy, and it is so. God is love. Nothing exists but god.

 

God gave us the light of conscience to guide us. Not for us to presume to judge his wisdom. We don't know the end from the beginning.

Oh please. It is not better to curse God in bondage and no one care, than to honor him in freedom. You are not greater than his purposes.

God is neither hateful nor a hippy. You clearly do not know God.

The United States has never put blasphemers to death. And as corrupt as we have become and are becoming, the chance it will ever happen is slim to none. So you are raging at things that go bump in the night.

 

Keep in mind that I don't believe your God exists, and that I believe what you call "God's wisdom" is actually just people claiming to speak for God. Now look at what you wrote from that viewpoint. It's terrifying. You are letting other people tell you to not judge by your own moral judgment and let them do it for you. This is what leads people to fly planes into buildings and think it's good.

I am greater than an imaginary being's purposes. I am greater than the purposes of those out to manipulate me too. So are you.

And it is better to not enslave yourself in bondage and to be free and think for yourself than to subject yourself blindly to the control of others and refuse to question.

God is hateful if the bible stories are all true. If not then maybe he is not. Do you say they are all true? Is God the monster he is depicted as or did they get it wrong? If they got it wrong then that's great.

Irrelevant. I didn't say anything about the United States. I was talking about the Bible, and about people following it. And people have done nasty things in the USA by following the bible. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live."

I am not raging. I have noted and will note again that the vast majority of today's Christians don't take the whole bible seriously anymore. That's a very good thing. The religion has been getting more and more tame. That's also a good thing. Maybe someday it will fade away into something completely benign.

 

Believe what you will. I know that God is real, that he lives and is divine. I know that he is our maker and judge, not we his. It is this selfish arrogance that sets man apart from God and leverages us away. And even our arrogance and pride is a fools game, as it springs from our accomplishments and the society we build. Which foolishness resides in the fact that what we make, springs from the gift of conscience and our obedience and servitude to this inherited mild servant of light.

As such, we are its servants. So to glorify ourselves upon this mountain of gain is to ignore the stark fact that we are nothing but wandering recipients, even of life itself and the opportunity to do anything at all. It is all a miracle made possible by God. Now if he must be here and speak, for us to give obeisance, then what are we to esteem ourselves when we cannot abide his absence.

He has left us surrounded in bounty and free, with the light of conscience and ability to reason. And what do we do...we put away conscience and reason and take glory to ourselves, as if Satan, in his rebellious lust for power and glory, should prevail over God and heaven. It is the repetition of the wandering Jews who smelt the golden calf and fell into debauchery because Moses was too long away.

Since when is patience too great a labor, or gratitude too great a burden that it be considered the grievousness of bondage. With this in mind, to then curse and blaspheme God is to presume to lay waste to the works of his hands, even to mankind and the plan of salvation. Therefore such a mans death is a blessing to mankind. Only God knows his own sorrow.

 

Since you obey without question and subvert yourself to others who claim to speak for this purported God. If you don't do that then you aren't enslaving yourself. If you do do that then you are.

What do you mean by the bolded? It looks like you want those who don't support your God to die. Did I read that correctly? And if so, can you see why I'd have a problem with it?

 

Aren't you assuming that God interacts with His creation? What if He doesn't? None of the things you mention will prove or disprove His existence.

 

Exactly! If God does not interacts with His creation, it makes no sense to pray or to visit a place of worship.

 

Sure, but then you'd be living your life under an assumption. If you're going to do that then Pascal's Wager is the better assumption.

 

Buddhism is not about inward detachment. It is about reaching out to help those who need it. It is only by offering your own self to others do you reach inner peace.
Do some research.

 

A place of worship??
Can't you talk to your god anywhere??

 

Modern religion is only one of the most successful power spinners in a long line of power sinners from the Delphic Oracle, Egyptian deities and Roman panthéon through South American gods and African idols.
It is ALL about frightening people into submission and forcing compliance by fabricating stories.
The individual is a danger.
Get used to it. The afterlife doesn't exist
Dead is dead. Just like anything else that lived and is now dead including animals, insects, plants and fish. There is no "judgement"...that is way to keep you under control while you are still alive.
Afterlife is about regenerating back into the universe. Matter cannot be destroyed, but it can change form.
Your ego stops when your brain does.
But what you are physically will reinvent forever.
How good is that!!
So get up off your knees and celebrate being part of the création that was the Big Bang.
Cue that's where you come from and will be part of forever.