World Health Organisation supports reopening of Chinese wet markets.

Discussion in 'Asia' started by chris155au, Apr 14, 2020.

  1. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    I don't need to. Just like the law doesn't need to prove innocence.

    I'm not demanding that you prove anything!

    Two deadly pandemics started in China in 18 years! Funny how only China has the ability to do that! :roflol:

    Well okay then - so you're happy with the continued sale of deadly bats anywhere around the world. This position is actually acceptable if you are against never allowing any travel from these countries ever again without basically having special dedicated isolation hotels at certain airports where people must remain for 14 days before they can leave the airport. Actually this might have to happen before the international investigation is completed, before any recommendations are made by the WHO to prevent this from happening again - presumably the travel bans can't remain in place forever - it's certainly inconceivable.

    Well I'm asking YOU! You're the one who made the point about the scientist pointing at the US. Again, which part of that are you referring to which points at the UNITED STATES? Here it is again:

    "A 2018 study of tissue slides and medical reports led by evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey found evidence against the disease originating from Kansas, as those cases were milder and had fewer deaths compared to the infections in New York City in the same time period. The study did find evidence through phylogenetic analyses that the virus likely had a North American origin, though it was not conclusive. In addition, the haemagglutinin glycoproteins of the virus suggest that it originated long before 1918, and other studies suggest that the reassortment of the H1N1 virus likely occurred in or around 1915.[31]"

    Other than the accounts of Wuhan doctors at the very CENTER of this thing, who are risked their freedom, possibly their LIVES by speaking out!

    You're assuming that the "app from one doctor to other doctors" is the point at which the Chinese government became aware of anything.
     
  2. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    You do. Otherwise you never made a point about the Wet Markets.

    I am demanding you prove your point about wet markets.

    Already discussed that China is a much larger country with a much larger population.

    You're not addressing the point that pandemics can start by cats and camels as well. And the US got their source covered up. So you're pushing your agenda of double standards.

    So there you go. That one... and 2 historians. It's also a simply a historic thing... since the US covered it up. "Kind of hard" to do scientific research when the US government is like that...

    on WHAT? That there is a new unknown disease? The government notified the world the next day!
    You're not proving your point that they weren't transparent.

    YOU need to prove your point!
     
  3. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well India has under a million more people than China and yet somehow they haven't been the origin of two deadly pandemic causing viruses!

    I've already acknowledged the MERS risk and the MINUSCULE risk of cats! However, MERS is NOTHING compared to SARS, and only China has managed to be the origin of two DEADLY viruses in 18 years! :roflol:

    What if cats and camels were also banned around the world along with bats? Would it STILL be a double standard?

    You didn't quote which part mentioned the US! How telling! :roflol:

    No. Keep up! Below:


    Hospital staff saw person-to-person transmission long before officials acknowledged or reported it, leaving hundreds of doctors and nurses in the dark, doing all they could to treat patients without knowing about the epidemic." https://www.businessinsider.com/wuh...-december-2020-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T

    A department head who asked to stay anonymous told Caixin that Chinese authorities have risked people's lives by spreading misinformation." The false information released by the relevant departments — claiming the disease was controllable and would not spread from human-to-human — left hundreds of doctors and nurses in the dark, doing all they could to treat patients without knowing about the epidemic," the source said. "And even when they fell ill, they could not report it. They could not alert their colleagues and the public in time despite their sacrifice. This is the most painful loss and lesson." https://www.businessinsider.com/wuh...-december-2020-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T


    Prove my point that you're assuming that the "app from one doctor to other doctors" is the point at which the Chinese government became aware of anything? :roflol: No, you need to prove that the "app from one doctor to other doctors" is the point at which the Chinese government became aware of anything.
     
  4. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    They had an outbreak in 1994, of unknown origin. Your point?

    You go source that level of risk by cats is minuscule. And we're already discusses that China is far larger and bigger population than almost any country. You're just still pushing a double standard.

    You're just trolling about a hypothetical situation that will never happen. You're just still pushing a double standard.

    Yeah... he's totally not pointing at the US...
    /facepalm

    That's not scientifically proving jack. It took ages for anybody to prove that there was such a thing as asymptotic carriers who were able to infect others.

    Ah... so an anonymous source fake news claim was it's not spread by human-to-human... but officially... you so far got jack that China claimed this.

    You claimed that China is not transparent. You need to claim your own things. I'm aware that China supposedly claimed that they said it's not transferable from person to person. But you got zero statements from China on this so far.
     
  5. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Pandemic? :roflol:

    Once again, I'm using your source against you! You cited this CDC source some weeks back:

    "Based on what is known at this time, CDC believes that for people who have no contact with infected cats the risk of H7N2 infection is very low." https://www.cdc.gov/flu/other/flu-in-cats/h7n2-cat-faq.html

    Why will it never happen? Isn't there a risk of pandemic with cats and camels?

    You didn't quote which part mentioned the US! How telling! :roflol:

    Why does it need to be proven in order to just communicate to the world what the EARLY FINDINGS are of the doctors who are at the center of the outbreak?

    Uh, what "anonymous source fake news claim?"

    Well I've never been led to believe that China actually told the world that there is no way that it is transferable from person to person. I'm not even saying that China hid it from the world once they had scientifically proven it! The argument is that they didn't communicate early findings.
     
  6. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Well @notme, it sure has been fun!
     
  7. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Did they close their borders? This is just pure luck that the contagious part was low and it died out on it's own.

    Until it mutates and suddenly everybody can get it like covid-19 is not identical to what the bats have.

    You need to look this up yourself.


    Same reason people thought hydroxychloroquine should work and were using it,... while they later proved that it doesn't work to be even do a lot more harm than good.
    https://www.france24.com/en/2020052...droxychloroquine-could-do-more-harm-than-good

    You can't be running around like a quack.

    Your source is based on a anonymous source. That's not the same as what the WHO or China said publicly.

    Aha. But that was in the right news all over. And it seems you are bowing down now that you're not able to prove that one bit.

    You got an opinion.... but it's not founded on anything.
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2020
  8. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    And it was pure BAD luck with coronavirus?

    Why do you mention "bats" here?

    Why? YOU said that there is a risk of pandemic with cats and camels. Didn't you say this?

    You're a little bit behind I'm afraid. This study was flawed and was retracted. See below:

    "The medical journal The Lancet on Thursday retracted a large study on the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat COVID-19 because of potential flaws in the research data."
    https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/lancet-retracts-large-study-hydroxychloroquine-n1225091


    Anyway, your reply has nothing to do with:

    "Why does it need to be proven in order to just communicate to the world what the EARLY FINDINGS are of the doctors who are at the center of the outbreak?"


    Are you calling YOUR SOURCE - 'Business Insider' - "fake news?"

    Sure, but I don't agree with everything coming from "right news."

    Well I never said that I could PROVE it. I can't - just as you can't PROVE that Trump is personally responsible for people dying from COVID! Just as you can't prove MANY thing which you claim about Trump, but you say them anyway presumably because you have seen sufficient evidence to make the claims!

    You didn't quote which part mentioned the US! How telling! :roflol:
     
  9. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Since the mutations are not designed to our knowledge.
    And suddenly bats have nothing to do with it or something... lol
    Your idea that cats and camels would be banned is still a hypothetical situation that won't ever happen.

    It does. Even the retracted version about hydroxychloroquine claims that there is no prove that it actually works. And them early findings have nothing to do with science. You go wonder what science have to do with combating viruses all you want, champ. lol

    YOU claimed that the Chinese government / WHO claimed something.
    You did not prove that. You can up with what some anonymous source said.
    You failed to prove the claim of the Chinese government / WHO.

    I did prove it. Fauci himself said that NOBODY would contest this.
    And you keep on contesting Fauci since it does not fit your agenda.
     
  10. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Well-Known Member

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    Wet market ... think about it ... what a terrible name ... Wet because of the blood.
    Eating animals is a crime, eating dogs and cats in China is shocking and disgusting.
     
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  11. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    You're a vegan I take it?
     
  12. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Why do you mention the mutations? I don't see how it's relevant. Again, India has under a million less people than China, and yet somehow they haven't been the origin of two deadly pandemic causing viruses! Your 'population' argument is TOAST! :roflol:

    Well you said, "until it mutates and suddenly everybody can get it like covid-19 is not identical to what the bats have." So you are CLEARLY acknowledging a difference between cats and bats!

    Yeah, OF COURSE it's a hypothetical situation! However, it's one which I would 100% agree with if cats and camels were ever deemed to be as dangerous as bats, or even HALF as dangerous! In that case, camels and cats should not be treated any differently to bats! So there's no double standard from me!

    Yeah, absolutely. There is no proof that it actually works.

    Uh, are you saying that science has nothing to do with combating viruses? Surely not!

    Nope, I just claimed that the Chinese government hid early findings. It is clear to me that they knew at least SOMETHING before they first reported to the WHO. They also suspiciously arrested doctors which you are conveniently ignoring!

    Yeah, I can't prove that, just like you can't prove that they knew NOTHING before they first reported to the WHO. However, I have presented some sources to support my claim, while you have presented NO SOURCES to support your claim!

    Well Fauci said "COULD" - but even if Fauci said, Donald Trump is personally responsible for people dying, that STILL wouldn't be PROOF! Again, you can't prove MANY things which you claim about Trump, but you say them anyway presumably because you have seen sufficient evidence to make the claims!
     
  13. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    Covid19 is not exactly identically to anything before. It's a mutation.
    They had their virus outbreaks. Just not the deadly and spreading mutations.

    I don't.

    Again. Covid19 is not exactly identical to what bats have. Your pressing double standards as if camels and cats can't have a deadly and easy to spread mutation.

    So there you go.

    You are saying that, by saying a rumor how covid19 was spreading should have been shared with everybody.
    That's all you got against the WHO / China for keeping things "secret" from the US.... vs
    the donald administration who kept things secret how deadly the virus is and ignoring it's own experts advise of social distancing.

    It's a rumor. There is no science behind it.

    So stop accusing China and the WHO.

    You're holding it against me I can't prove a negative. While it's YOUR point that you can't prove. Pathetic.

    We got Fauci being pushed back about his idea of when social and physical distancing should have been installed.
    We got Donald having Bright fired for wanting the same thing. He says so under oath. You got only tweets rebuke that.
    We got a memo from the WH from January saying it's a very deadly virus who got published months later.
    And we got you disputing Fauci that it's OBVIOUS, NOBODY IS GOING TO DENY THAT on the subject if lives could have been saved.

    Donald is the man in charge. I don't need to prove that.
     
  14. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Correct. Again, India has under a million less people than China, and yet somehow it hasn't been the origin of two deadly pandemic causing viruses! Your 'population' argument is TOAST!

    You don't see a difference between the pandemic risk of cats and bats? :roflol:

    Of course they CAN! Just not as likely as bats! And cats are NOWHERE NEAR as likely, given that they haven't been the source of even ONE outbreak of anything!

    So what did you mean by, "you go wonder what science have to do with combating viruses?"

    What are you talking about? If doctors report their medical findings, how is that not science?

    My point is that you're choosing to ignore credible evidence. There would come a point where if you were presented with enough evidence, then you wouldn't NEED to prove a negative in order to change your opinion.

    Trump being the man in charge doesn't mean that he is personally responsible for people dying from COVID! :roflol:
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
  15. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    It's not bunk. Deadly viruses did start there. That is proving my point.
    You just moved to goal post to from getting a deadly virus to having a fast spreading new virus in order to go pandemic.

    I don't see you source the difference.


    I don't see you proving your point.

    exactly that.

    When his finding are that he thinks it looks like sars,.... than it's not scientific.

    You got absolutely nothing that China held back information. You hardly every source anything. We all know it.

    He is according to his own account. He called "Biden/Obama were a disaster in handling the H1N1 Swine Flu. Polling at the time showed disastrous approval numbers. 17,000 people died unnecessarily and through incompetence!".

    Donald is like 5 times more incompetent.
     
  16. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Yes, a "fast spreading new virus in order to go pandemic" which is what happened in 2002 and the useless Chinese communist government didn't learn it's lesson!

    I already did! YOUR OWN CDC source which said the risk of cats is TINY!

    I don't need to prove that cats haven't been the source of an outbreak of anything! That's called a FACT!

    Who is "HIS?"

    I've sourced more than you. You are totally unable to defend the arrests! :roflol:

    I don't see where Trump says that Obama is responsible for the deaths!
     
  17. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    So much for your India argument.

    You haven't proven that is different than an other potential virus outbreak like the ones that pigs can cause.

    The CDC doesn't exclude the possibility. People accept the risk. You haven't proven the risk is different compared to other virus mutations.

    Person who did the "finding".

    Among things: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1238288908431036423?s=20
    Sleepy Joe Biden was in charge of the H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic which killed thousands of people. The response was one of the worst on record. Our response is one of the best, with fast action of border closings & a 78% Approval Rating, the highest on record. His was lowest!

    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1259450328048709633
    We are getting great marks for the handling of the CoronaVirus pandemic, especially the very early BAN of people from China, the infectious source, entering the USA. Compare that to the Obama/Sleepy Joe disaster known as H1N1 Swine Flu. Poor marks, bad polls - didn’t have a clue!



    And of course, the response of Donald is far worse than Obama and Biden's response.
    Hands down no discussion. The carnage and economic damage is just insane.
     
  18. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    My India argument still stands. You argue that viruses have started in India in the past. So why don't you think any
    of those viruses have been viruses like those which have come from China, including two pandemics since 2000?

    You mean like the new flu strain from pigs which experts are now fearing could come from CHINA? :roflol:

    So you don't think that the cat risk is ANY different to the risk of CORONAVIRUS? :roflol:

    I don't see where Trump says that Obama or Biden is responsible for the deaths!

    I don't think they can be compared, because they were two very different pandemics. Trump's an idiot though to refer to it.

    Says who?
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  19. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    China didn't have 2 pandemic since 2000, only the current cov19 count as one. SARs in 2003 was mostly isolated localized region, same with MERS, same with EOBla. since 2000, there is ONLY 2 pandemic, the current one and H1N1 swine flu in 2009.

    as for Trump he downplay it for long time, when he taking seriously in March it was already too late, now he just give up, let the governor do whatever they like, there is no central leadership or guideline from WH. looking at EU/canada/SK/Taiwan etc etc, all were able to flatten the curve, yet US/Brazil and few others currently in a uptick position. This show incompetence of leadership and outbreak guideline/procedures
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2020
  20. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    Okay, one MAJOR epidemic and a pandemic from China since 2000. None from India, not to mention the difference between the two countries PRE-2000. My India argument still stands.

    Taking seriously with his WORDS during press conferences you mean?

    Oh, so the curve isn't flattened in the US?
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
  21. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    not sure why compare to india vs china pandemic, any country can have some kind outbreak, developing country in theory has more chance due to its food market, and other factors.

    No, trump downplay the cov19 in jan-march, the waste time give covd to spread in US. even now, he basically ignore it and let it play out, hence why US currently has the highest infection.

    flattened? lol no, several state like AL/AZ/TX open up too soon, follow by protest, and ppl dont wear mask etc, now its worst compare to April. consider EU allow chinese to travel into EU, but doesn't allow US/russia/brazil, that tell you how bad is here in the US now.
     
  22. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    That would be due to @notme's HOPELESS argument that the reason that China is so GOOD at allowing viruses to break out, is because of it's large population. I used India as example of a country which has under a million less people than China, and yet somehow it hasn't been the origin of two deadly pandemic/epidemic causing viruses!

    He downplayed it even though he implemented a travel ban against China back in January?

    What more are you saying that he should do?

    Well, in MOST states the curve is flattened isn't it?
     
  23. s002wjh

    s002wjh Well-Known Member

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    remind me who said, "we only got few case, it will be gone by april" who didnt lockdown seattle, back in jan/feb? who shut down epidemic study group in 2018? who is currently went to mount rushmore, and allow 7000 people sit closely WITHOUT mask? who tell ppl inject bleach into their body? who NEVER wear mask, set a bad example for everyone. who called it win when 126,000 american dead? the list goes on, but you get the idea.

    He should take the leadership instead allow every gov has its own various policy, isolate area that has huge SPIKE, set an example by wearing mask instead become a political topic, keep encourage ppl wear mask and social distance. set a team for better contact tracing back in jan/feb.

    40 state cases is raising, not flatten.
     
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  24. chris155au

    chris155au Well-Known Member

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    What IMPACT did SAYING that have? And didn't we KNOW from the data that what he was saying was nonsense?

    What the hell? Are you saying that he should have taken authority over the State of Washington and lock down Seattle?

    Well it wasn't Trump personally was it.

    I admit the risk. However, I wonder how LOW the cases would have to be before you think that something like this would be acceptable. I also assume that you were totally against the BLM protests. Would I find any posts of yours in which you support them? I'm pretty good at finding posts!

    No, he didn't TELL people to do that. However, this doesn't mean that what he said wasn't one of the DUMBEST and most RIDICULOUS things that I've ever heard in my entire life! :roflol:

    Yeah, he could probably wear a mask. However, the CDC haven't MANDATED mask wearing and neither have many states, including Democrat states.

    Do you not understand that you are mostly talking about what he SAID? Why don't you look at what he DOES? What about the travel ban against China implemented back in January? What about the mitigation recommendations in March which he implemented after the FIRST TIME that Faucci recommended it?

    What do you mean by "allow every gov has its own various policy?"

    Contact tracing is STATE managed isn't it?

    Damn.
     
  25. notme

    notme Well-Known Member

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    I proved it. So your argument doesn't stand. You can only say that them viruses didn't mutate into pandemics by pure luck. Nobody knows where that Indian virus came from and why it died out.

    It seems that covid19 didn't even come from China.
    https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/t...ve-originated-in-china-says-oxford-professor/

    It looks like it's rather similar of the 2009 swine flu pandemic. So it aint that new at all. It's been there since 2011 since they started collecting samples of pigs. Nobody has been infected after years of exposure to it.
    https://edition.cnn.com/2020/06/30/asia/china-swine-flu-pandemic-intl-hnk-scli-scn/index.html

    So now what? Ban all pig farms? Your off to double standards again.

    You keep failing to source the risk and keep attempting to answer it for you with all these rephrasing.
    Pathetic.

    The point is that they are being held accountable for being in charge. Point has been proven. Same way Donald is now failing for not being in control and doing a terrible terrible job. He's back golfing while the infection rate goes through the roof. There hasn't been such an incompetent president ever.

    Guy who made the findings. You got nothing on the entire thing that the WHO and China knew. Besides some best guesses from doctors who didn't had a lab look at it,... you really got nothing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020

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