Would the US act if China invaded Taiwan?

Discussion in 'Warfare / Military' started by Dirty Rotten Imbecile, Nov 4, 2021.

?

Does the USA, and the west, still have what it takes?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
    52.4%
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
    47.6%
  1. 19Crib

    19Crib Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    And forbid Chinese ships to enter American ports. The silent Chinese tech weenies and Mr & Mrs rice bowl are as hooked on cheap junk, social media, and the newest video games as any tree hugging incel in America.
    Their military has the ability to be very aggressive for a short time. China is used to demoralizing it’s opponent, then doing a sneak attack, but 21st century China is very vulnerable to being neutered at sea so sneak attacks are hard to pull off. The artificial islands are sitting ducks. Their military has never been tested.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
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  2. Monash

    Monash Well-Known Member

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    That goes without saying. Chinese merchant vessels wont be entering any ports outside of China, North Korea and possible Vietnam (albeit Vietnam might be pissed off enough to give them the finger as well, even if it doesn't actively join the alliance.)

    Another plus I just though of is that Chinese merchant ships can be allowed to return to home ports from overseas (but of course not leave again once they do). If a war broke out there would be a lot of non-Chinese merchant shipping docked in China or passing thorough their territorial waters. Letting Chinese ships return home is a counterweight to any attempt by China to hold other nations ships and crews hostage.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2022
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  3. Ramjet

    Ramjet Newly Registered Donor

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    Not if it’s only a minor incursion.
     
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  4. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think the war in Ukraine gives us a window into how the USA might handle it if China attacked Taiwan.
     
  5. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Not really, because Ukraine is not a US ally. However, Taiwan is.

    Plus unlike Ukraine, Taiwan is trained and knows how to use US equipment. They use the F-5 and F-16. They use the M60 and M1 main battle tanks. Their artillery is all US made, mostly M109 Paladin and M114.

    Most of their equipment is US made, and uses standard NATO projectiles. That means almost no training is needed if they need more, and supplying them with more ordinance is simple. Just load up a few cargo planes and send it to them.

    Plus their 4 Destroyers are US made (former Kidd class), as well as 6 former Knox class Frigates. But even their domestically made ships all use US weapons and detection equipment.
     
  6. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    The US is not obligated to take direct military action though so I could easily see them feeding Taiwanese forces with equipment without declaring war.
     
  7. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    BS. Post a link or provide proof otherwise that the U.S. has ever had a no first use policy.
     
  8. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Actually, it is. It is known as the Taiwan Relations Act.

    https://www.ait.org.tw/our-relation...policy-documents-region/taiwan-relations-act/

    Care to try again?
     
  9. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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  10. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    Right. Because treaties mean nothing.

    Dude, this is a US Law.

    Exactly which treaties are at the discretion of one of the parties? Simple answer, none.

     
  11. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks for setting me straight.

    Hey did you watch the video?
     
  12. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    My ex is evil and called the cops on me about every 4-5 weeks for 7 years. Our kids are now afraid of uniformed officers because they saw me get beat up, threatened, etc. many times. The crazy part is the cops were allegedly called because they were told I hurt the kids so they were coming in to "protect" them.

    That's what your comment sounds like. I don't know how far-reaching the impact of nuclear weapons would be on the world but it just doesn't make sense to me that you are saying we would (or should) "protect" Taiwan by any means necessary even if the "cure" is not only assured devastation for them but anyone caught in the fallout from the use of nuclear weapons.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  13. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    And Trump, who gave up our multi- year allies, against Al Qaida-- the most dependable group in that entire area, who was even militarily competent, and could have been an ally and island of stability in the MidEast-- the Kurds, to Turkey (where Trump has some real estate deal, cooking), he would do something? Be real-- America First, remember? News flash: he's against foreign intervention (unless there's some oil, or other booty in it, for us).

    But, you know what, in the case of Taiwan, non- direct interference, is the only sensible course. The U.S. Department of Defense has played out various simulations of this exact conflict, and we always lose. This should be no surprise-- just look at the logistics.

    Taiwan is w/in a couple of hundred miles of the Chinese mainland (with a population of well over a billion). Our country is at almost at the other side of the planet. Sure, we have aircraft carriers but, first of all, by the time we could marshall all the necessary forces, China would already be well established, on the island. Secondly, if we proved all the simulations wrong, and actually drove off the Chinese, would we thenceforth keep the principle part of our Pacific Fleet, parked off Taiwan? Along with a permanent presence of how many U.S. soldiers, to hold off-- not North Vietnam-- but China?

    I'm not saying that I like these facts. But, if we are going to be realistic: it would just be an untenable situation. And the U.S. population are not going to be overwhelmingly gung- ho, over such a war (& an expensive, lingering presence, should we actually win), which is the kiss of death, for military operations, in a democracy. Sorry to be the one, telling y'all that there is no Santa Claus, but this would be a sucker's- war.

    Luckily, our military & our government already realize this, and consider it, IMO, a non- starter. In this case, at least when it comes to direct military intervention, I believe even Donald Trump, would do the responsible thing.
     
  14. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    Small pieces pose a choking hazard for children. ;-0
     
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  15. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, it’s China. They can’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag.

    I mean yes it’s been a long time since the war against Japan but it’s been a long time since Russia invaded Finland too and Russia’s performance in Ukraine today doesn’t seem much better.
     
  16. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    You may be right, but that is taking an awfully big risk, on the hope that China's military is as inept as Russia's. You also seem to be forgetting that China is the only reason there is now a North Korea, because Chinese troops came to the rescue, against us.

    With China, the factor that cannot be ignored, is their numbers. Their current military has twice our # of soldiers: 2.8 million. But the real threat, are their potential reserves: at about 1.4 billion people, China has TEN TIMES Russia's population... Oh, and they have nukes, as well. Such a battle with them, practically on their own shores, and over land they actually have a reason to consider, part of their own country, would be, without a doubt, a very costly one.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  17. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    It’s all opinion for sure. I think Chinese automated defences would be worrisome but I don’t think most Chinese people want to fight America.
     
  18. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    Do most Russians?

    Hell, they want even less to fight Ukranians! But this is what you get with dictators, who wield cults of personality (inexplicable, though they might seem to outsiders) within their own countries.
     
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  19. DEFinning

    DEFinning Well-Known Member Donor

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    You know, I hadn't even been thinking about that, but they are at the cutting edge, when it comes to things like surveillance, facial recognition, and artificial intelligence; it can only be matter of time, before that stuff makes its way into the military hardware-- or have you heard that it already has?

    My guess, because China still invests rather little in their military hardware, compared to the exorbitant spending of the U.S., would be that they are closer to the prototype level, than the fully equipped battle group one, when it comes to this. That would mean, not as great a concern, in the timeframe in which we are thinking a Taiwan Invasion might occur; though we could see a little of that. What's your take?
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  20. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    I’m not 100% sure where they are at but drones, sentry guns, ai guided missiles all seem easy enough with technology today.

    ‘They are turning the South China Sea into a series of defended man made islands to increase their claim over it. I am sure that includes intelligent aa guns. If it doesn’t then they aren’t as scary a country as we think
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  21. Mushroom

    Mushroom Well-Known Member

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    What video, to start.

    Secondly, probably not. Videos largely mean nothing, I can show you videos that prove that man never landed on the moon, that the Earth is flat, and all kinds of nonsense. If you want an idea, just watch some that Snitwin posts all the time. I often laugh as I tear him up on how horrible they are.
     
  22. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    I guess you are just too smart for me.
     
  23. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    We will not stand by and let our friends be conquered and destroyed.
     
  24. MJ Davies

    MJ Davies Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say anything that suggested we should or would.

    I said that it makes no sense to claim we are "protecting" someone/a country when the pathway to that destroys them and anybody in X thousand miles (or whatever the reach is for nuclear weapons) of them.
     
  25. Toggle Almendro

    Toggle Almendro Well-Known Member

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    Right. I'm the one who is suggesting that.


    The idea is to destroy the aggressor who is harming our ally, then our ally will not be harmed.
     

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