Would you vote to impeach? Would you to remove?

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by btthegreat, May 4, 2018.

  1. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    This thread is directed at those of you who's rational status has not been trumped by 'deep state' conspiracies and who's souls have not degenerated into zombie status. I want to know if you see sufficient evidence of a need for a trial yet as a hypothetical congressman, and if you would vote to remove Trump from office as a hypothetical Senator, based on what you know.

    My views extend from the following premises and assertions .
    1. The phrase 'high crimes and misdemeanors' has a long history that predates this republic by more than a century in English common law, and has been a standard in impeachment trials.
    2. 'High' does not refer to the gravity of the crime, but the stature of the accused and the occasion. By definition, if removal of a minister, judge or executive requires an impeachment proceeding, the matter is high and so are the accusations! Spitting on the sidewalk becomes a high crime or misdemeanor if it is formed into an article of impeachment.
    3. While any crime mentioned in an article, would involve an criminal offense contrary to law, misdemeanors did not. Historically, officials both here and in England have been impeached for charges stemming from negligence of duty, gross incompetence and/or moral turpitude. You can find precedence of officials being impeached for refusing to spend the parliaments budget, drunkenness, licentiousness, interpreting statutes inconsistent with the clear directions of Congress, refusing to enforce laws etc all under the exact same standard described in our constitution. Inability or unwillingness to perform necessary functions of the office, is as impeachable as treason.
    4. A vote in favor of a trial in the Senate does not necessarily equate to a vote to convict and remove. It is perfectly reasonable for a Congressman to believe that there is enough evidence for the need of a trial without asserting that the Senate ought to vote to remove.


    In my opinion, While the nature of any specific charge in the articles may not rise to the stature of dangerous or threatening to the republic, the cumulative impact of behavior must be. In other words, we ought not be impeaching public officials unless less invasive methods or even doing nothing, is likely to lead to irreparable harm to the country, its institutions, or its people. There has to be a serious risk and prolonged consequence to allowing them to stay in office to warrant taking up the resources and energy of all three branches of government.

    At present, if I were in Congress, I would seriously consider voting to impeach Trump depending on what the articles were. If the Judiciary committee just came out with the criminal charges of conspiracy to... (all that 'collusion' with Russia/ election stuff ) and obstruction of justice, I would not now vote to impeach. I would be open if there were evidence that Trump SUCCEEDED in compromising the integrity of the institutions in AG's office, Justice Dept, and FBI. I might be open to vote for a trial, if there were also articles on gross incompetence, and pervasive neglect of duty . But there has to be a pragmatic purpose to be served in the process, and some likelihood of success. Political considerations are supposed to matter in political bodies. It should not just be some symbolic or political exercise. He scares me, so I am close and tempted, but I would not today as a Senator, based on what I know now, vote to remove him. For the record, only Watergate /Nixon has met my rather high standard.

    How about you?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
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  2. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    I would vote to impeach if I were in the House.

    I would have to reserve my vote in the Senate until all of the evidence is presented.
     
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  3. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    You did not say on what grounds. Is it the legal issues that Mueller is investigationg or on some other concerns like competence in performance or moral turpitude that you would vote for a trial?
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
  4. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    Of course Obama's high crimes and misdemeanors warranted impeachment; but for a variety of reasons he was untouchable; and so it's far too late now. But thanks for asking.
     
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  5. MolonLabe2009

    MolonLabe2009 Banned

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    Based on what high crimes and misdemeanors?
     
  6. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Those 'high crimes and misdemeanors" would be for the House to draft.
     
  7. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Specifically the House Judiciary committee or a specifically designed select committee historically has the investigatory hearings and votes some articles out of committee. I assume you as a Representative would not vote for articles you did not believe were serious enough to warrant a trial. I am asking which grounds do you think have sufficient evidence and are serious enough that you would support with your vote on the floor.
     
  8. Surfer Joe

    Surfer Joe Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No. Neuter him in November then fire him in 2020. That’s the best way to deal with it.
    Unless real criminal charges are made, then he may need to resign or face impeachment.
    Bogus charges, like lying about a blowjob or ****ing a porn star, should not be used to impeach. It demeans the process.
     
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  9. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What high crimes? What misdemeanors? Be specific and bring data. Otherwise this is just more alt-right unsubstantiated hot air.
     
  10. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    In my opinion, today there is no evidence of a high crime against Trump. There is some smoke, but enough to impeach? I am content to await the results of the Mueller investigation to identify what specific crime has been committed. Once a specific charge is made the House should vote to impeach then conduct a trial in the Senate.
     
  11. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hmm, so far the DOJ and FBI have done enough to impeach themselves sans Trump. How would you account for that?
     
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  12. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Trump caused butthurt. That is enough for the #NeverTrumpers.
     
  13. Seth Bullock

    Seth Bullock Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No.
     
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  14. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    An "investigation" conducted by a gang of political opponents that started on false pretenses and pretexts and turned into a witch hunt and a fishing expedition, an "investigation" the goal of which is not to investigate a crime but to get and unseat a duly elected president and to achieve this they exceed the mandate by miles, resort to lies, hide exculpatory evidence, blackmail, intimidate....

    Sorry but no, this investigation has tainted itself so badly, so beyond repair so no matter what nonsense it will produce, it won't matter one iota, malicious prosecution, witch hunt, political persecutions have no room in the American political and legal systems.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  15. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    More hot air from the right. This was supposed to be a serious thread for adults.
     
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  16. Capt Nice

    Capt Nice Well-Known Member

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    I would not wait for Mueller. I think trump has shown enough to justify a 25th Amendment. After all, he's only lied to the American people over 3,000 times.
     
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  17. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    Adults tend to recognize a witch hunt for what it is and not childishly pretend that Mueller and 20 liberal activists he hired are conducting a legitimate investigation, especially a day after an adult senior federal judge completely destroyed the credibility of this Mueller's jihad, accused him of hidden agenda, lies, evidence hiding and ignoring the rules and the mandate.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  18. opion8d

    opion8d Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Language like "liberal activists" "witch hunt" "jihad" and more make posts like this unreadable and of no value to any conversation. It reads like a bad script from a right wing AM radio show. We're done here.
     
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  19. Just A Man

    Just A Man Well-Known Member

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    Would you vote to impeach? Would you to remove?
    .
    Yes if warranted, per the constitution. And I would also vote to send you to the electric chair if your crime warranted it and the chair was a lawful penalty for your crime. Any more questions? Yes I voted for Trump and like his policies and plans so far. And still there is no evidence Trump did anything that would warrant impeachment proceedings. But the MSM is hard at work with their 'impeach Trump propaganda' and many fools are falling for it. Maxine Waters is leading the group. Are you proud to be on her team?
     
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  20. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    As long as you've failed to rebut the federal judge's conclusion that Mueller's "investigation" is a witch hunt and the investigators lie, ignore rules and their mandate, have a hidden political agenda and withhold exculpatory information, I am perfectly satisfied with the outcome of the discussion. We are done indeed.
     
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  21. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Just hot air from the far right who are willing to topple our constitutional values to protect the worst sleaze bag and most divisive president in our history, Trump.
     
  22. JakeStarkey

    JakeStarkey Well-Known Member

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    Does not matter what the Judge thinks. Any of his rulings can be appealed, and his interference into the investigation will be overruled.
     
  23. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    1. Sure does, see how that indictment or impeachment plays out when a senior federal judge calls it a lying, politically motivated, out of control witch hunt. What a powerful ammunition for the defense if this whole thing ever goes to court or impeachment.

    2. Who is going to be doing the appealing, Rosenstein? I really really really doubt it LOL
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  24. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Those "political opponents" are fellow Republicans...
     
  25. Borat

    Borat Banned

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    If you call them "swamp" you will likely feel less confused.
     
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