WSJ: Trump colluding with Ukraine

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Golem, Sep 20, 2019.

  1. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    True...but do
    While it may be settled in Court, the applicable law is Public Law 112-199, which was derived from Senate Report 743 (beginning on page 29), which in turn was to amend Chapter 23 of Title 5, in the United States Code. And, it's "cite."
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  2. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    What authority would that be?
     
  3. ButterBalls

    ButterBalls Well-Known Member

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    Like I said ;) "that's why we have rhetoric and propaganda for those times it gets in the way of peoples defense.." or for those times "WE have SOMETHING", the left certainly have one point that's spot on, ridiculous, it sums up the left wing party perfectly.

    People really should find something a little more personally rewarding to do then devote month after month, year after year hoping, praying and posting about something as unimportant as this while wasting what's most important "Real Life"..

    Its tragic to think/believe this sort of venue is going to produce anything other then a callused ass and gray hairs :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  4. Thedimon

    Thedimon Well-Known Member

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whistleblower_Protection_Act

    The whistle blower must be in intelligence community or have access to classified information, and the report must be about waste, fraud or abuse.
    We can definitely rule out waste and fraud.
    As for abuse - where is the abuse? In demand to start investigation of the firing of previous general prosecutor? While a president cannot completely withhold foreign aid, unless the timing is specifically specified in the budget law, the president can definitely delay the funds transfer.

    So, first of all, you cite a law that is not criminal - it’s the law that protects employees of the federal government. It’s not a law that says if you do something then you get penalized with some loss of freedom.
    Second of all, judging from the wording of this particular law, it might not even apply to Trump demanding investigation from Ukraine. I dint see a case of fraud, waste or abuse.

    All of this leads me to conclude that the whistle blower is just a partisan hack who needs to be fired. Meanwhile congressional democrats are grasping for straws and leftist mass media is happy to overcover this nothingburger.
     
  5. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Check out the Public Law as well. Yes...if you tried to stop a federal employee, with those qualifications, from exercising those rights and blocking the process, you would be breaking the law. Of course, no one is "guilty" until convicted and we know, per the Mueller Report, that according to DoJ "policy" this President cannot be indicted while in office. [Note: I believe his attorneys are now claiming, in a Manhattan Court, that he cannot be "investigated" at all while he is President. That's TBD.
    IMO, ultimately, the Supreme Court is going to have to rule on the constitutionality of the DoJ policy and IF that policy is struck down, he'll be prosecuted on numerous charges.
    But, it's TBD.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  6. Lee Atwater

    Lee Atwater Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't disagree. But it is a mistake to allow this rampant corruption and lawlessness to go on without an impeachment process being begun............knowing full well the cowardice of Senate Repubs means the Jackass-in-Chief will not be convicted even in the face of the overwhelming evidence revealed by Mueller.
     
  7. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Authority of Biden saying his own.No need for calling his
    Boss { Obama }.
    Talk about gall.
    Biden actually making statements with extreme pride.
     
  8. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Mueller report made the call there was No evidence of Collusion.
    What lawlessness had President Trump used.
     
  9. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yeah...possibly. But an impeachment and non-conviction in the Senate buys you a cup of coffee...and not much else. Pelosi is waiting for one of two things (both would be best): a Democratic Senate and/or a smoking gun. Personally, I think that if Mueller had found prove of conspiracy, he would have gone ahead and challenged the DoJ policy on not indicting a sitting president. But, he couldn't find the "smoking gun" and didn't want to challenge the policy based solely on obstruction without the underlying crime. If we can avoid a nuclear war and/or Second Great Depression, until the 2020 election, I think Trump will be defeated at the polls. In the meantime, there is still, IMO, a high probability that the "smoking gun" will appear on something.
     
  10. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    He has no such authority. But, he is Irish, and the Irish have been known to exaggerate on occasion.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  11. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No...you apparently didn't read it. It specifically states that "collusion" isn't a federal crime and they weren't looking for it. They looked at two possible crimes: conspiracy and obstruction of justice. The didn't find the first and failed to complete the investigation on the second and only presented evidence collected to date for possible future prosecution, due to the DoJ policy on not indicting a sitting president. IOW, they reached no conclusion at all on obstruction.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  12. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I think there is a possibility that Dan Coats and/or Sue Gordon may be involved in the whistleblower thing. No evidence or reason, other than the timing of their resignations. If that's the case, it COULD BE very problematic for Trump. Watch for administration attacks on either or both.
     
  13. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    So you don't believe in the laws and the Constitution. Got it!

    One of the saddest things of this administration is the number of people Trump has managed to corrupt.
     
  14. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    Whistleblower's report has not been received by Congress.
     
  15. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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    So with a Republican President, a Republican Congress, AG, SCOTUS and scores of U.S. attorneys and judges appointed by Trump.... why is he not in jail?
     
  16. Golem

    Golem Well-Known Member Donor

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  17. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Banned

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  18. Silver Surfer

    Silver Surfer Banned

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    Why deflecting? Answer the question about Biden. Do you approve of his actions? Hypothetically. 1.8 billion USD is missing, you are a state prosecutor Would you investigate?
     
  19. stone6

    stone6 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Biden isn't the issue, at this point. It's whether or not the Trump administration has a legal obligation to turn over the whistleblower's complaint to Congress. To be calling for a Biden investigation, AT THIS POINT, is deflecting away from whether or not the administration violated the law in handling the whistleblower's complaint.
    And, if Trump has some "probable cause" regarding Biden and/or his son violating U.S. law in Ukraine, all he has to do is pick-up the phone and call the CIA, the State Department and DoJ and ask them to look into it, instead of sending his personal attorney. What's Rudy doing? Who does he work for? Who is paying him? The Trump 2020 Campaign?
     
  20. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For almost a Year it was bandied about that Indeed " Collusion "
    was a Federal Crime.Until it was explained legally.
    So don't pull that crap.
    Just like for near a year it was also taken seriously { By a Lying MSM }
    that a Sitting President COULD be Indicted.Until it was proven otherwise.
    You are being lied to by a compliant Mainstream Media on numerous
    fronts.
    With Deep State Lies and moves like James Comey Making the
    decision on whether to Indict Hillary.That is a Call that only the
    Justice Dept. or Loretta Lynch should have made.
    But since she { Lynch } was in the thick of it { the Hillary exoneration } she
    passed the ball to Comey to be the Fall Guy in making an address
    in why to Not Indict Hillary.
    History is not about to let that pass.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
  21. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    :banana::clapping::roflol:This guy voted for Trump, and he is a member in good standing within Trump's base. He is representative of Trump's supporters.

    Nine days ago Trump released the $250 million in military aid to Ukraine. The whistleblower's complaint reached the I.G. desk on Aug. 12. Trump got caught with his hands in the cookie jar, and he tried to remove the stigma.

    House Intelligence Committee chair Adam Schiff, then, sent a letter to acting DNI Maguire on September 10, demanding more information and accusing him of violating the law by not sending Congress the complaint.

    ODNI general counsel Jason Klitenic — who is responsible for overseeing all legal matters within the ODNI — responded on September 13 in a letter to Schiff and the Senate Intelligence Committee. In that letter, Klitenic said that his office had consulted with the Justice Department about what to do, and that they determined the complaint wasn’t an “urgent concern” after all. He further said that the complaint “does not allege misconduct within the Intelligence Community.” (We now know this is because it alleged misconduct by President Trump himself.)


    https://www.vox.com/2019/9/18/20872701/dni-whistleblower-schiff-intelligence

    o_O Trump is such a child.
     
  22. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Abject Height of goofiness and Projection.Do you even comprehend how
    dopey that sounds.
    That is precisely why all 2020 Democrat Presidential candidates are
    talking and pleading like Obama cartoon sycophants.
    That is what is at the heart of this.To protect by any and all means
    Barack Millhouse Obama.The Creator of Americas first Deep State.
    Americans by and large are getting the fully skinny as to what this
    Corrupt Mainstream media and Obama's meaning behind " Transforming "
    meant.To knock down Americanism in lieu of a breaking this Country.
    The Left wants to " transform " this county by any and all means.
    Donald Trump loves this Country and it's traditions and it's Patriots.
    Whose side are you on.?
     
  23. Belch

    Belch Well-Known Member

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    Vox and Schiff?

    Those two go together like Harry and Lloyd.
     
  24. Foolardi

    Foolardi Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You are correct.Obama actually went after Whistleblowers as POTUS.
    I doubt you'll find mush from this Corrupt MSM regarding that.
    Obama went so far as to outlaw Press Photographers in his White House.
    Also refused to open his WH visitor Logs.Which would have showed
    Community Black Activist Al Sharpton { 6PM MSNBC host for 2 years }
    attending Over 100 times.Sharpton { known blatant Liar and Tax cheat }
    used by Obama as an advisor in capacity of Loretta Lynch being
    nominated as Eric Holder's replacement.
     
  25. Sandy Shanks

    Sandy Shanks Banned

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    I can't find anything wrong with Hunter Biden's activities. That's at the root of the Biden involvement. What did Hunter do wrong?

    As for Joe's involvement, it's complicated.

    Viktor Shokin had much bigger issues than the corruption case against Mykola Zlochevsky. Almost immediately after he was appointed, he started to cause almost irreparable harm to Ukraine’s legal system. For starters, he failed to prosecute any prominent members of the Yanukovych regime or anybody in the current government. He constantly blocked reform to Ukraine’s broken legal system.

    He was in charge of implementing the 2014 law on prosecution which the European Union had asked Ukraine to do for years. The law aimed to reduce to role of prosecutors who “were absurdly superior to judges in the Soviet legal system that persisted in post-Soviet Ukraine” according to Atlantic Council. It also called for a reevaluation of all prosecutors in order to weed out the more corrupt and incompetent ones. Shokin manipulated the process so that the old system mostly remained the same and minimal, ineffective changes were implemented.


    He was the largest obstacle to judicial reform in Ukraine. It wasn’t just Joe Biden calling for his ouster, it was the United States government and the European Union.

    https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/joe-biden-ukraine/

    That's the short version.

    In other words, the Biden involvement is net zero. It is an attempt to divert attention from the despicable act Trump committed. He asked a foreign power to interfere in our election on his behalf and used $250M in military aid approved by Congress as inducement to get the foreign power to do as he asked.

    Anyone defending Trump is really saying that it is perfectly okay for a foreign power like Russia or Ukraine to interfere in our election if its helping Trump.

    That is beneath contempt.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019

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