http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070214/...ecurity_cia_dc

Anyone care to speculate on why the US would hand CIA terror suspects over to third countries?

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0050317-4.html

Seems like the EU is looking pretty hard at a year's worth of investigation against some of its own members for collusion with the CIA and its rendition programs. Lots of stories that contradict the official policies of all governments involved.

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SUPPORT THE TROOPS: RIDE A BIKE

Cry me a river..
Poor Poor Terrorists..waaaaa

__________________
McCain 2008
"We make war that we may live in peace"
"...peace is the highest aspiration of the American People. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever."
"Oderint dum metuant"
"Inartful: clear and straightforward, lacking the artistry that allows subsequent self-refutation and denial."
http://members.cox.net/neddy/bobhope_kerfuffles.wmv
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnfflRNpwKA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QYIP7o2-A

This persona you have created here seems to see and define other people by only the narrowest and shallowest of terms. Unfortunately, that is a reflection of you, not the people you judge, label and continually mischaracterize. Your post is predictable and boring, your typical 2-line response is misguided and simplistic, and your standard response does nothing but lower the level of discourse and kill the possibility for conversation. The only thing that your post is really missing for you to hit par with your own handicap is the pointless profanity censor. Your contribution to this place in my opinion, results in a net-loss.

I was going to try to redirect this thread back to its topic, but I don't care if you ever respond, so I won't even ask the question that I meant to begin with.

__________________
SUPPORT THE TROOPS: RIDE A BIKE

I certainly wouldn't cry if someone picked you up and tortured you. Even if your local police force arrested you on a conspiracy charge & dumped you into one of the USA dungeons, i wouldn't cry for you.

Mark.
Q Mr. President, under the law, how would you justify the practice of renditioning, where U.S. agents who brought terror suspects abroad, taking them to a third country for interrogation? And would you stand for it if foreign agents did that to an American here?
THE PRESIDENT: That's a hypothetical, Mark. We operate within the law and we send people to countries where they say they're not going to torture the people.
But let me say something: the United States government has an obligation to protect the American people. It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way. And we will do so within the law, and we will do so in honouring our commitment not to torture people. And we expect the countries where we send somebody to, not to torture, as well. But you bet, when we find somebody who might do harm to the American people, we will detain them and ask others from their country of origin to detain them. It makes sense. The American people expect us to do that. We -- we still at war.
One of my -- I've said this before to you, I'm going to say it again, one of my concerns after September the 11th is the farther away we got from September the 11th, the more relaxed we would all become and assume that there wasn't an enemy out there ready to hit us. And I just can't let the American people -- I'm not going to let them down by assuming that the enemy is not going to hit us again. We're going to do everything we can to protect us. And we've got guidelines. We've got law. But you bet, Mark, we're going to find people before they harm us.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0050428-9.html

The report was explicitly critical of Mr Ahern, who it says "failed to answer all the questions in relation to the concerns that Irish airports may have been used by CIA aircraft travelling to or from extraordinary rendition missions".
Labour MEP Prionsias De Rossa, who sat on the parliament's temporary committee investigating the rendition programme, accused the Government of attempting a "cynical whitewash".
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking40.htm

Reportedly, in a number of cases (such as Khalid El-Masri and Maher Arar) the practice of "extraordinary rendition" has been applied to innocent civilians, and the CIA has reportedly launched an investigation into such cases (which it refers to as "erroneous rendition"). In El-Masri's case, he may have been mistaken for another man with a similar name, Khalid al-Masri. The introduction of the term "erroneous rendition" should not be interpreted to mean that extraordinary rendition of any intended subject is legal.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

4. Does Amnesty International accept US claims that "rendition" is legal?
Amnesty International believes that these practices are illegal because they bypass any judicial or administrative process such as extradition. Under international law, it is illegal to transfer people from one country to another without any kind of judicial or administrative process.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/engpol300032006

Extraordinary rendition is a method that the CIA under Bush has expanded so that people with a dissenting voice may be locked away without any recourse to a Judicial system. Some have been found to be not guilty of any actions against US interests and the rest, how are we to know what they are alleged to have done or have done? We may only judge when the facts are presented, to date those facts have not been shown. If they have done something put them on trail. If all they have been doing is bad mouthing the US then the criminal resides in the Whitehouse.

What’s the next step arrest a few Democrats who vote against Bush’s policies in Iraq and park them in Gantanemo until they realise the error of their ways?

No one is crying over the terrorists. Its all the innocent people who get tortured we worry about.

Its what makes teenagers blow up daycare's.

I wonder what you would do, if Peru kidnapped your parents and tortured them for a year, without charges, without a chance to prove innocence, and without remorse.

Of course their is always the notion that America is a virtous Christian nation, that has high morals and the best value system in the world. But obviously you do not agree because you think torturing people is cool and fun. Why do you hate our values soo much??

Ixtellor

His replies are actually a dramatic improvement from his earlier posts...seriously.

Torturing terrorists suspects really dulls the line between us and them. Lately, I've been having a lot of trouble telling the difference between our "patriots" and their "terrorists."

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LET ME SEE YOUR WAR FACE!!!

Question:

How many innocent people have terrorist killed in the last 5 years?

How many innocent people have Americans killed in the last 5 years?

Does the answer to these questions strengthen our position of rightousness or weaken it? Does the answer to these questions make us safer from future attacks or more at risk?

The USA has every right to fight terrorists.. No one is saying otherwise. The question is HOW to fight terrorists. Do we find them, and put them on trial. DO we attack them with surgical percision after a clear military process. Or do we make false claims, start wars, bomb everyone killing woman and children and do it in the name of fighting terrorists?

Why choose a 5 year period? Why not go back to the beginning of Operation Condor. The number of innocents killed by the CIA and its agents would then be very high. Nobody knows how high because the bodies were not all found, they are still called the disappeared.

Try 30,000 for Argentina, after training at Fort Benning the operatives put their training to good use?

The US and the CIA has been at it for longer than 5 years. The CIA has been dirty for decades

http://www.desaparecidos.org/arg/tort/eng.html

Operation Condor and Argentina's Dirty War
Main articles: Operation Condor and Dirty War


Pictures of disappeared during a Mother's demonstration at Plaza de Mayo.
During Argentina's "Dirty War" and operation Condor, political dissidents were forced to jump out of airplanes far out over the Atlantic Ocean, leaving no trace of their passing. Without any dead bodies, the government could deny they had been killed. People murdered in this way (and in others) are today referred to as "the disappeared" (los desaparecidos), and this is where the modern use of the term derives. An activist group called "Mothers of the Plaza de Mayo", formed by mothers of those victims of the dictatorship, were the inspiration for a song by Irish rock band U2, Mothers of the Disappeared (see also the Valech Report for Chile). Rubén Blades also composed a song called "Desaperecidos" in honor of those political dissidents. The Mexican rock group Maná covered the song in their album "Maná: Unplugged." Boris Weisfeiler is thought to have disappeared near Colonia Dignidad, a German colony founded by Nazi Paul Schäfer in Chile which was used as a detention center by the DINA, the secret police.
Between 1976 and 1983, in Argentina, it is thought that up to 30,000 dissidents (9,000 according to the official report by the CONADEP [2]), and people connected to them, were subject to forced disappearance under the military junta that was in power. From bits and pieces of information collected from military officers involved in the so-called "Dirty War", many victims were sedated and dumped from airplanes into the Río de la Plata (today these are called vuelos de la muerte, death flights). Other people were held in torture and detention centres; the most notorious one was the Navy's Mechanics Training School (ESMA) in the Núñez district of Buenos Aires.
Many women gave birth in captivity, and their children were given illegally in adoption to families of military or police personnel, or their friends, while their mothers were killed soon after. The task of locating these children and restoring their lost identity has been going on ever since the restoration of democracy in 1983, and has been key in unveiling the atrocities committed by some people otherwise protected by the laws that mandated an end to the trials of former military government officials, or by the pardon granted by President Carlos Menem in 1999, since appropriating children from their mothers is a crime that lies outside the scope of military procedures, and thus also outside any kind of amnesty law or pardon that implies orders in a military context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_disappearance

But in five years the US is already up to 2000

The Disappeared
Since 11 September last year, up to 2,000 people in the United States have been detained without trial, or charge, or even legal rights. The fate of most is unknown. Andrew Gumbel investigates a scandal that shames the land of the free

http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0226-08.htm

It was never clear exactly how many men, women and children were killed when Haitian troops and paramilitaries stormed through the seaside town of Raboteau in April 1994. Some of the bodies were buried in shallow graves where they were gnawed by animals, while others were flung into the ocean. At least two dozen people, and perhaps as many as 100, died.
Next week, nearly 13 years after the incident, a court in Miami will hear a case for damages against a former Haitian army officer convicted in relation to the killings. Col Carl Dorélien must be ruing his luck: had he not won millions of dollars on the Florida lottery after he fled from Haiti, it is unlikely lawyers would now be on his trail.
No one alleges that Col Dorélien was personally involved in the killings, carried out when the Caribbean nation was ruled by a military junta which had, with the assistance of the CIA, ousted the elected president, Jean-Bertrand Aristide. But Col Dorélien was a member of the army's high command, and was responsible for discipline and military justice.

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...cle2278036.ece

All the little CIA backed regimes, why not include all of them, tell me when the “Terrorist” totals get past that and I dig up a few more examples for you.

And you thought the terrorist had dirty hands?

Well DUH...you're a hypocrite.
IF I was a Teorrist though I know you'd be rushing to my aid..you wouldn'tt know it was me you'd simply know I was a Terrorist being held by the USA...and thats all. But its more then enough.



You don't even know their guilt or innocence but you more then willing to give them the benefit of the doubt at being innocent with little to no knowledge whatsoever of whay they are even being held.


Whose all the innocent people?....
You don't know.............don't even try to claim you do becasue there is no way you could know.

Kinda like dead US soldeirs they make better props then the live ones.


Metrophobe..LOL.
Your posting record belies all that haughty nonsense.







Everyone knows most of you will never have a positive thing to say about US soldiers or the USA in general.
But when it comes to defending the enemy you guys are all words.

None of you knows the guilt or innocence whatsoever you simply assume everyone is innocent and the USA is evil. Thats it.

Worst of all..YOU ALL ASSUME TORTURE.
You claim it occurs therefore it does.
Then you point to Law.......

__________________
McCain 2008
"We make war that we may live in peace"
"...peace is the highest aspiration of the American People. We will negotiate for it, sacrifice for it, we will never surrender for it, now or ever."
"Oderint dum metuant"
"Inartful: clear and straightforward, lacking the artistry that allows subsequent self-refutation and denial."
http://members.cox.net/neddy/bobhope_kerfuffles.wmv
http://youtube.com/watch?v=RnfflRNpwKA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QYIP7o2-A