Waterboarding does organ failure, so it can't be used. There are many other ways to use other than waterboarding, and believe me, they used them all.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/artic..._97_WASHI21612

Army general: Bush administration guilty of war crimes


By McClatchy Newspapers
6/18/2008 6:25 PM
Last Modified: 6/19/2008 4:53 PM


WASHINGTON — The Army general who led the investigation into prisoner abuse at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison accused the Bush administration Wednesday of committing "war crimes" and called for those responsible to be held to account.

The remarks by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who's now retired, came in a new report that found that U.S. personnel tortured and abused detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, using beatings, electrical shocks, sexual humiliation and other cruel practices.

"After years of disclosures by government investigations, media accounts and reports from human rights organizations, there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes," Taguba wrote. "The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

Taguba, whose 2004 investigation documented chilling abuses at Abu Ghraib, is thought to be the most senior official to have accused the administration of war crimes. "The commander in chief and those under him authorized a systematic regime of torture," he wrote.

A White House spokeswoman, Kate Starr, had no comment.

Taguba didn't respond to a request for further comment relayed
via a spokesman. The group Physicians for Human Rights, which compiled the new report, described it as the most in-depth medical and psychological examination of former detainees to date. Doctors and mental health experts examined 11 detainees held for long periods in the prison system that President Bush established after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. All of them eventually were released without charges.

The doctors and experts determined that the men had been subject to cruelties that ranged from isolation, sleep deprivation and hooding to electric shocks, beating and, in one case, being forced to drink urine.

Bush has said repeatedly that the United States doesn't condone torture.

"All credible allegations of abuse are thoroughly investigated and, if substantiated, those responsible are held accountable," said Navy Cmdr. J.D. Gordon, a Pentagon spokesman. The Defense Department responds to concerns raised by the International Committee for the Red Cross, he said, which has access to detainees under military control.

"It adds little to the public discourse to draw sweeping conclusions based upon dubious allegations regarding remote medical assessments of former detainees, now far removed from detention," Gordon said.

The physicians group said that its experts, who had experience studying torture's effects, spent two days with each former captive and conducted intensive exams and interviews. They administered tests to detect exaggeration. In two of the 11 cases, the group was able to review medical records.

The report, "Broken Laws, Broken Lives," concurs with a five-part McClatchy investigation of Guantanamo published this week. Among its findings were that abuses occurred — primarily at prisons in Afghanistan where detainees were held en route to Guantanamo — and that many of the prisoners were wrongly detained.

Also this week, a probe by the Senate Armed Services Committee revealed how senior Pentagon officials pushed for harsher interrogation methods over the objections of top military lawyers. Those methods later surfaced in Afghanistan and Iraq. Former Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld didn't specifically approve of the worst abuses, but neither he nor the White House enforced strict limits on how detainees would be treated.

There was no "bright line of abuse which could not be transgressed," former Navy general counsel Alberto Mora told the Senate committee.

Leonard Rubenstein, the president of Physicians for Human Rights, said there was a direct connection between the Pentagon decisions and the abuses his group uncovered.

"The result was a horrific stew of pain, degradation and ... suffering," he said.

Detainee abuse has been documented previously, in photos from Abu Ghraib, accounts by former detainees and their lawyers, and a confidential report by the International Committee for the Red Cross that was leaked to the U.S. news media.

Of the 11 men evaluated in the Physicians for Human Rights report, four were detained in Afghanistan between late 2001 and early 2003, and later sent to Guantanamo. The remaining seven were detained in Iraq in 2003.

One of the Iraqis, identified by the pseudonym Laith, was arrested with his family at his Baghdad home in the early morning of Oct. 19, 2003. He was taken to a location where he was beaten, stripped to his underwear and threatened with execution, the report says.

"Laith" told the examiners he was then taken to a second site, where he was photographed in humiliating positions and given electric shocks to his genitals.

Finally, he was taken to Abu Ghraib, where he spent the first 35 to 40 days in isolation in a small cage, enduring being suspended in the cage and other "stress positions."

He was released on June 24, 2004, without charge.
By McClatchy Newspapers



Surveillance would have found more information than spending money on torture for these guys. With only so few to be charged showed it was a completelly ineffective set up.

[quote=C-D-P;582375][quote=BigRed;582338]Uh...if I knew it one hundred percent sure to be true...then it would be true. Absurd statement.Yea, I'm sure they do know when their life begins flashing before their eyes.

black, Your article does not support your opening argument.

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http://www.physiciansforhumanrights....-military.html

Water Boarding is when a prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. This tactic simulates drowning. Water boarding creates the sensation of imminent death by drowning. Survivors of death threats suffer high rates of post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. Despite the "simulated" drowning, hypoxia can and probably does occur. At the same time, a dramatic physiologic stress response, with tachycardia, hyperventilation and labored breathing is almost unavoidable. The combined psychiatric and physiologic stress resulting from this technique could induce cardiac ischemia and other cardiac issues in vulnerable individuals, and even brief hypoxia can cause neurological damage.

Some more information on waterboarding.

http://waterboarding.org/torture

Some more:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/car...chemia/HQ01646

Cardiac ischemia occurs when blood flow to the heart muscle (myocardium) is decreased by a partial or complete blockage of a coronary artery. A sudden, severe blockage may lead to a heart attack (myocardial infarction). Cardiac ischemia may also cause a serious abnormal heart rhythm (arrhythmia), which can cause fainting or even sudden death.

http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/science/hypoxia.htm

Hypoxia serves as an excellent metaphor for human existence on planet Earth. Humans incarnate a limited aspect of themselves into this realm for the purpose of experiencing the perception of being separate from Source. (i.e. God) In order to play the Game of Separation, the aspect of humans that incarnates into this realm (the Ego self) is by necessity of limited consciousness and in most cases, completely unaware of its true nature, namely that it is an individualised but inseparable aspect of Source and as such potentially unlimited. Like a human being suffering from hypoxia, most humans are completely unaware of this state of affairs and 'think' they are fully conscious, when in actual fact they are spiritually unconscious.

These should describe the point better. It's will cause heart attacks, with does fall into the organ failure area.

Link did not work. Now once again, as there is no threat of imminent death or serious bodily harm, it was not torture. The description of waterboarding in your quote is incorrect. Someone may feel like it is, but as it is explained that it is not, then it is not.

Link did not work.

No mention of waterboarding being a cause of this.

No mention of waterboarding being a cause of this.

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C-D-P, dunno if you've read this thread below from march/2008, but you might find it interesting.

REAL Torture

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"When I'm in command, every mission is a suicide mission!" -Capt. Zapp Branigan
The United Church of the Latter Day Tangential Tarts

Well hey, if it were legal again I would be all about letting the police using that technique.

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It isn't though because it is inhumane.

No. It isnt now because of public outcry about something they do not understand.

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No, I'm glad for once the public took the moral high road instead of trying to justify ludicrous behavior in the name of the "public good".