I like how torture has become such a magical process.

Think about it.

We torture people, put them through inhumane amounts of pain, but those people aren't going to tell us anything because of it. Nope. Also, we never are smart about torture tactics. For instance, we don't torture someone and ask a question we know the answer to to see if they are telling the truth, we blindly ask questions for no reason.

I think we need a Fantasy board to put this thread...

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Woodrow Wilson

Fair enough then.

Unfortunately that is the kind of people who want to run for office. The people who don’t want to run are probably those best equipped to run this country. Colin Powel and Condoleezza Rice would make great presidents, but they don’t want to be president. We end up with the next best runner-ups.

I agree and I believe that has already begun.

These agencies (CIA etc) friendly governments and subcontractors who practice these waterboarding are only following your the American Governments requirements, procedures and policies. These methods would not be allowed to happen under any civillised society or in America prior to the Bush ascendency. Why else would your American gvernement send prisoners to Yemen, Jordan, Egypt etc etc?
Be proud to be American!
Funny when you think your American leader took himself off when Vietnam was on the go!!!
I wont mention any of the other senior American government officials in the Bush administration. who also disappeared at about this time also!!
To die for the flag is okay provided your not the one thats dying!
Regards

It's a matter of, dose this person's life have more wieght over another's.

You must see it from the CIA's point of view...

They are just doing what they think is needed to save another person's life.

In a way it's a form of sacrafice of a person's well being without there concent to it, to get information from that person to prevent the death of one or more other people.

So it come's down to the very fact, will the pain that I give this person save another from pain, and is that pain that I give that person worth the pain that I will save another from.

Most of the time, the percent of quality information has not justifyed the pain that has been given, yet even this is in the eye of the beholder, and is left to people's own point of view and perception to judge if the pain given has or has not been worth the pain saved.

Yet eventho I do not support, nor not support there action's, I'm very willing to present there point of view and perception of there action's that they commit.

For that's the CIA's logical thinking behind there action's to use such techneques such as "waterbording" and other method's of information gathering.

"To give pain to another, just to save pain from another."
Is it right?
Is it not right?
why is it right?
why is it not right?

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For it is what it is, for that is what I say it is, therefore making it what it is, and thats what I say it is, and therefore I made it what it is

What do you think the Vietnamese did to the soldiers? How do you propose getting information out a religious fanatic? Surely not speaking to them. For that requires time and sometimes they don't have time, I would have vetoed it. Let the CIA do what it does for the security of the United States and water boarding is not permanently injuring someone. As for torturing physically that would cause permanent harm; I am against it completely.

Just don't (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) and moan when more american soldiers get their head's chopped off. The Geneva convention is there for a reason; not to necessarily protect the enemy, but our own as well. We violate that, and we lose the moral high ground and our enemy can do the same.

You seem to celebrate in carnage of either side.

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And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

Actually, those who favor torture do. I am against it. If you are going to do it however, be aware of the consequences which so few seem to think of.

Waterboarding was about the most tactically inept thing we could have done.
Any fight against subversives and insurgents requires alienating them from the general populace. Torture worked in their favor.

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"Our liberties we prize and our rights we will maintain"- Iowa state motto

Ventura/ Paul '12

Torture has never been a legal policy of the United States government.

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Soldiers swear to protect and defend the Constitution with their lives.

Politicians swear to protect and defend the Constitution with someone else's life.