Political Forum
     

Go Back   Political Forum > Political Issues > Warfare / Military > Intelligence


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2009, 05:19 PM
Aaron Chalor Tate's Avatar
Aaron Chalor Tate Aaron Chalor Tate is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kansas
Age: 17
Posts: 189
usa us kansas
Aaron Chalor Tate will become famous soon enoughAaron Chalor Tate will become famous soon enough
Credits: 1,370
Send a message via MSN to Aaron Chalor Tate Send a message via Yahoo to Aaron Chalor Tate
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpankyTheWhale View Post
I am not talking about killing the interrogated. I am not entirely against killing the interrogated, but that is not what I am talking about right now.

Well thats the thing. They are interrorgated, notice the past tense. What they do with them afterwards is the problem I see.
__________________
Hope is for the lazy
Prayers are for the weak

Faith is for the fallen
Dreams are for the faint
Religion is for the shallow
Sciences are for the rabid

Politics are for the insane
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Red Cross - Donate Today    Save the Rainforest
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2009, 05:21 PM
SpankyTheWhale's Avatar
SpankyTheWhale SpankyTheWhale is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: right behind you
Age: 3
Posts: 18,613
SpankyTheWhale has disabled reputation
Credits: 16,735
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Chalor Tate View Post
Well thats the thing. They are interrorgated, notice the past tense. What they do with them afterwards is the problem I see.
Why is it the problem?
__________________
Through any and all LEGAL means necessary, the Obama Administration's existence must be neutralized and cancelled out.
-----------------

If you are on the chopping block, just contact me. You don't need to be banned. Contact me even if I hate you.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 03-29-2009, 05:25 PM
Aaron Chalor Tate's Avatar
Aaron Chalor Tate Aaron Chalor Tate is offline
Correspondent
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Kansas
Age: 17
Posts: 189
usa us kansas
Aaron Chalor Tate will become famous soon enoughAaron Chalor Tate will become famous soon enough
Credits: 1,370
Send a message via MSN to Aaron Chalor Tate Send a message via Yahoo to Aaron Chalor Tate
Default

well what do they do with them regardless if they answered the questions truthfully or not?
__________________
Hope is for the lazy
Prayers are for the weak

Faith is for the fallen
Dreams are for the faint
Religion is for the shallow
Sciences are for the rabid

Politics are for the insane
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 12:27 PM
Honestyinpolitics? Honestyinpolitics? is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Honestyinpolitics? is on a distinguished road
Credits: 313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by E_Pluribus_Venom View Post
My apologies if this is a duplicate thread. I couldn't find anything.

Detainee's Harsh Treatment Foiled No Plots




Source

So, just how effective are aggressive interrogation measures? I suppose the thought had always been that pain would result in accurate intel. I didn't much agree with this logic, and some information to support it (like this story) makes for a good discussion on the effectiveness. Your thoughts?
This is what we get from electing ideologues who burrowed into groupthink lockdown the more they were challenged. Facts did not (nor do) get in the way of their beliefs so bad and tragic decisions were made in our name. Without any contrary ideas getting in they became even more radical in their thinking and beliefs. They believe patriotism is doing anything, ANYTHING, if they believe it has an iota of a possibility of saving an American life. Tragically they have probably killed more Americans than saved with the actions they took based on this belief. But I do not believe they were evil, just misguided and arrogant. As we have learned just because someone truly believes their actions were just does not make them so. We have also learned that we need to elect leaders who ENCOURAGE dissenting views & rigorous debate to make sure that the best decisions are made in our name.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 02:08 PM
Wowwww Wowwww is offline
Analyst
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,608
us texas
Wowwww has disabled reputation
Credits: 12,546
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honestyinpolitics? View Post
This is what we get from electing ideologues who burrowed into groupthink lockdown the more they were challenged. Facts did not (nor do) get in the way of their beliefs so bad and tragic decisions were made in our name. Without any contrary ideas getting in they became even more radical in their thinking and beliefs. They believe patriotism is doing anything, ANYTHING, if they believe it has an iota of a possibility of saving an American life. Tragically they have probably killed more Americans than saved with the actions they took based on this belief. But I do not believe they were evil, just misguided and arrogant. As we have learned just because someone truly believes their actions were just does not make them so. We have also learned that we need to elect leaders who ENCOURAGE dissenting views & rigorous debate to make sure that the best decisions are made in our name.
So, the CIA and FBI do these interrogations because they do not work and kill more Americans?
These CIA and FBI agents are ignorant and arrogant?

Rigorous debate and dissenting views will do a better job of protecting Americans than interrogations?

Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 04:31 PM
Honestyinpolitics? Honestyinpolitics? is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Honestyinpolitics? is on a distinguished road
Credits: 313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wowwww View Post
So, the CIA and FBI do these interrogations because they do not work and kill more Americans?
These CIA and FBI agents are ignorant and arrogant?

Rigorous debate and dissenting views will do a better job of protecting Americans than interrogations?

I think my statement was clear - I am not talking about the FBI or CIA but elected officials, those creating the policies. The FBI and CIA follow orders from the policy makers.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 04:58 PM
Shiva_TD's Avatar
Shiva_TD Shiva_TD is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Everett WA
Posts: 12,140
usa us washington
Shiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 749,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Chalor Tate View Post
If you kill someone during interrogation your doing it wrong; especially Waterboarding.!
The detainees held by the Bush adminstration weren't all that lucky. Let's see, two died after being shackled to the ceiling and literally beaten so severely that they both died a few days later. One of them had their legs so severely beaten the doctor doing the autopsy stated that had the man lived he would have had to have his legs amputated. Another was striped naked and subjected to severe cold over a long period of time and died of hypothermia. There were others but their fate eludes me right now.

Appartently Americans just aren't very good at torturing people........ they kill way too many of the victims.....
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
Forum Rules and Guidelines: http://www.politicalforum.com/curren...uncements.html

Last edited by Shiva_TD; 05-14-2009 at 04:59 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:07 PM
Bowerbird's Avatar
Bowerbird Bowerbird is offline
Guru
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: australia
Posts: 4,783
australia au queensland
Bowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond reputeBowerbird has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 19,753
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Chalor Tate View Post
The eaisest way to get a terrorist to talk is drugs.
You know - this is so "TV script"

Why not use hypnosis???

Truth is many of the drugs can get someone to talk but they also heighten suggestibility which means you might end up with false information. Plus memory is a plastic thing which can be moulded by imagination. These drugs blur reality and fantasy and therefore could end up with the person "remembering: something that did not happen
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:15 PM
Shiva_TD's Avatar
Shiva_TD Shiva_TD is online now
Site Moderator
Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Everett WA
Posts: 12,140
usa us washington
Shiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond reputeShiva_TD has a reputation beyond repute
Credits: 749,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honestyinpolitics? View Post
I think my statement was clear - I am not talking about the FBI or CIA but elected officials, those creating the policies. The FBI and CIA follow orders from the policy makers.
No one enforcing the law, whether CIA or FBI or military police, is under any obligation to follow any direction which violates the law. Certainly an FBI agent would know the Title 18 prohibitions against torture and/or cruel treatment of a prisoner. One would hope that anyone in the military would also know that following an unlawful order is strictly prohibited and orders to abuse a prisoner in any way is an unlawful order. That only leaves the CIA and I would hope that they had read the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution if nothing else.
__________________
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —
http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/index.htm
Forum Rules and Guidelines: http://www.politicalforum.com/curren...uncements.html
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 05-14-2009, 05:22 PM
Honestyinpolitics? Honestyinpolitics? is offline
Observer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 14
Honestyinpolitics? is on a distinguished road
Credits: 313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
No one enforcing the law, whether CIA or FBI or military police, is under any obligation to follow any direction which violates the law. Certainly an FBI agent would know the Title 18 prohibitions against torture and/or cruel treatment of a prisoner. One would hope that anyone in the military would also know that following an unlawful order is strictly prohibited and orders to abuse a prisoner in any way is an unlawful order. That only leaves the CIA and I would hope that they had read the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution if nothing else.
Good points. From what I know the FBI was not involved in waterboarding. Not sure about the CIA. It appears that contractors were hired to do the waterboarding. Not sure what cover they had. The Office of Legal Counsel produced judgments giving the admin cover, saying that waterboarding was not torture - I guess this is why Cheney keeps saying we were not torturing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The False Compromise OpineBlog Political Blogs 0 03-16-2009 12:40 PM
The False Golden Age rodog Political Opinions & Beliefs 7 10-29-2008 07:18 PM
GOP Site Endorses E-mail Smears, Said 'Waterboard Obama' Hair Apparent Elections & Campaigns 1 10-16-2008 01:18 PM
Obama's False Ads JP5 Elections & Campaigns 38 07-04-2008 06:28 AM
Another attempt to buy your vote. kscott13 Elections & Campaigns 0 04-30-2008 05:25 PM

Sponsored Links

All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0
Template-Modifikationen durch TMS
vBCredits v1.3 ©2007 by Darkwaltz4
Advertisement System V2.1 By   Branden