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Old 04-20-2009, 08:24 PM
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Default Computer Spies Breach Fighter-Jet Project

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TECHNOLOGY
APRIL 21, 2009

Computer Spies Breach Fighter-Jet Project

By SIOBHAN GORMAN, AUGUST COLE and YOCHI DREAZEN

WASHINGTON -- Computer spies have broken into the Pentagon's $300 billion Joint Strike Fighter project -- the Defense Department's costliest weapons program ever -- according to current and former government officials familiar with the attacks.
Similar incidents have also breached the Air Force's air-traffic-control system in recent months, these people say. In the case of the fighter-jet program, the intruders were able to copy and siphon off several terabytes of data related to design and electronics systems, officials say, potentially making it easier to defend against the craft.
The latest intrusions provide new evidence that a battle is heating up between the U.S. and potential adversaries over the data networks that tie the world together. The revelations follow a recent Wall Street Journal report that computers used to control the U.S. electrical-distribution system, as well as other infrastructure, have also been infiltrated by spies abroad.

US Air Force HACKING VICTIM: Spies are said to have stolen data on the F-35 Lightning II fighter. Here, the plane undergoes flight testing over Texas.

Attacks like these -- or U.S. awareness of them -- appear to have escalated in the past six months, said one former official briefed on the matter. "There's never been anything like it," this person said, adding that other military and civilian agencies as well as private companies are affected. "It's everything that keeps this country going."

Many details couldn't be learned, including the specific identity of the attackers, and the scope of the damage to the U.S. defense program, either in financial or security terms. In addition, while the spies were able to download sizable amounts of data related to the jet-fighter, they weren't able to access the most sensitive material, which is stored on computers not connected to the Internet.

Former U.S. officials say the attacks appear to have originated in China. However it can be extremely difficult to determine the true origin because it is easy to mask identities online.

A Pentagon report issued last month said that the Chinese military has made "steady progress" in developing online-warfare techniques. China hopes its computer skills can help it compensate for an underdeveloped military, the report said.

The Chinese Embassy said in a statement that China "opposes and forbids all forms of cyber crimes." It called the Pentagon's report "a product of the Cold War mentality" and said the allegations of cyber espionage are "intentionally fabricated to fan up China threat sensations."

MORE AT:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124027491029837401.html

Last edited by Atlas; 04-20-2009 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:33 PM
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How many breaches do we let occur before we sanction China in some fashion?

Anyone have any ideas on how we could strike back effectively?
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Old 04-20-2009, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
How many breaches do we let occur before we sanction China in some fashion?
Anyone have any ideas on how we could strike back effectively?
Strike back using the same methods we used against Israel when they spy on the US.


--

Ooh this reminds me of an incident back in the 1970s when the Chinese tried to build an exact copy of a Boeing jet (can't remember which, 707 maybe). Anyway so the chicoms built their own version from design specs stolen from the US.. looked exactly the same as the US plane but the chinese copy wouldn't fly.

Turns out the chinese got the center of gravity all wrong.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tedminator View Post
Strike back using the same methods we used against Israel when they spy on the US.


--

Ooh this reminds me of an incident back in the 1970s when the Chinese tried to build an exact copy of a Boeing jet (can't remember which, 707 maybe). Anyway so the chicoms built their own version from design specs stolen from the US.. looked exactly the same as the US plane but the chinese copy wouldn't fly.

Turns out the chinese got the center of gravity all wrong.
There's no problem with their ability to reverse engineer planes now. Witness their forcing down the EP3 on Hainan Island a couple years back. They had their own copy up and flying within about a year
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:47 AM
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according to Zhuang Guotu (2000:46) 'it is well-known in China that perhaps 25 per cent -30 per cent; of first-level American scientists are Chinese'.


Chinese are everywhere.
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:49 AM
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according to Zhuang Guotu (2000:46) 'it is well-known in China that perhaps 25 per cent -30 per cent; of first-level American scientists are Chinese'.


Chinese are everywhere.
Easy enough to solve
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Old 04-21-2009, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Easy enough to solve
wishful thinking

BTW."How China Plans to Dominate the Shipbuilding Industry
William R. Hawkins
Friday, August 17, 2001

William R. Hawkins is Senior Fellow for National Security Studies at the U.S. Business and Industry Council.
China is making a concerted effort to establish itself as a major maritime power. It is now the world's third largest shipbuilder in terms of gross tonnage, surpassed only by Japan and South Korea. The high volume of these three Asian countries comes from commercial, not naval (military), construction. Commercial shipbuilding has, however, always been considered a strategic industry, and not only because its infrastructure can also support warship construction. England at the dawn of the industrial revolution, and Japan as it strove to catch up with the West in the 19th century, both used shipbuilding as a catalyst for wider economic development."



http://www.americaneconomicalert.org...asp?Prod_ID=80

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Old 04-21-2009, 10:56 AM
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One of the problems with condemning China for it's involvement in the cyber-attacks on America is a simple answer: It may not be the government itself responsible for the act. Like terrorist organizations al Qaeda and Hezbolla, smaller private cells of hackers are very likely responsible.

These smaller organizations may be linked directly to the government but it's very likely they're acting in a more "patriotic" manner and defending their country from our pointing of fingers.

It's a thought anyways...
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Old 04-21-2009, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by reverand35 View Post
One of the problems with condemning China for it's involvement in the cyber-attacks on America is a simple answer: It may not be the government itself responsible for the act. Like terrorist organizations al Qaeda and Hezbolla, smaller private cells of hackers are very likely responsible.

These smaller organizations may be linked directly to the government but it's very likely they're acting in a more "patriotic" manner and defending their country from our pointing of fingers.

It's a thought anyways...
Rampant hacking by independent Chinese might be believeable anywhere else but China where internet use is monitored to the nth degree and there are something like 300,000 army internet censors

Last edited by Atlas; 04-21-2009 at 12:54 PM.
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Old 04-21-2009, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryGalinda
according to Zhuang Guotu (2000:46) 'it is well-known in China that perhaps 25 per cent -30 per cent; of first-level American scientists are Chinese'.

Chinese are everywhere.
Easy enough to solve
Lets hear this final solution idea of yours.
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