My name is David.

I'm here because I'm having a crisis recently in my political mind.

In my life I've "been" a conservative Christian, a liberal (bordering on socialist) atheist, a libertarian agnostic, and most recently an individualist anarchist existentialist. These labels are mainly for convenience. That's pretty much been the transition I've gone through, though.

But right at the moment I'm not so sure where I stand. I am trying to understand what I personally believe about politics and what the implications of that are. So in addition to reading some of the things I haven't read and re-reading some of the things I have (and I haven't been picky, devouring everything from Lysander Spooner's "No Treason" to Benito Mussolini's "The Doctrine of Fascism"), I decided to come here and see what some discussion with other politically minded people produces in my head.

Be advised, I am very open-minded but rather skeptical at the same time. I am willing to entertain almost any idea, but very rarely do I accept any idea. I am here to learn, but I will also feel led to debate at times, both to understand my own opinions and those of others better.

Anyhow, if anyone wants to start proselytizing for their own political philosophy right now, this would probably be the time.

Well if you like reading I suggest~

Plato's "The Republic"
John Locke's "Essay concerning human understanding"
Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan"

I've read "The Republic" and "Leviathan".

Okay. Well I tried.

Even though I'm a Conservative.

If Anarchism is at 6 o'clock...
my personal philosophy is at 12 o'clock.

I think most people's relationship to anarchism tends to be based on their perception of what it is. Not that I am sure I am one, but I do like a hell of a lot of the theory behind individualist anarchism or maybe what some would call autarchism. It comes down to, for me anyhow, the basic philosophical principle that I don't believe any human being has any special right to decide what is the proper action for another one. For the record, I've never been against government for those who choose consciously to be governed.

Don't know how much I can help with the religious angle except to say that I think there's certainly enough stuff out there to merit some form of agnosticism.

Politically I think you need to make a decision of whether you follow reality or not. It can be a happy place to hold political positions that won't hold up in reality. It lets you look down on what is and occasionally will make you feel good about things like cheating on taxes and such depending on what you select.

Hmmm.....

What would you say are the functions of government?

This is the best way to determine how much of an anarchist someone is.

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"Seek truth from facts"

--Deng Xiaoping

Actually, my first post was probably misleading in that it implied that I have some crisis of faith along with my crisis of politics. I don't. I'm not sure why I included religious terms actually. I would actually consider myself an agnostic at this point, even a model agnostic.

Secondly, I think the implication that well-thought out anarchism is unrealistic is a form of that superiority complex you implied. While anarchism would never lead to a utopia as some might expect, and might actually lead to a pretty rough world, I'm not sure that an easy world is the best or most just one. Then again, i dig ideas like mercy and altruism, which are often at odds with individualism and a more social darwinist attitude. In addition, there are forms of anarchism which are simply against the state and not against organization and democratic decision. Anarchism does not automatically imply what most people seem to think it does.

Thirdly, while I've actually never avoided paying taxes or anything of that sort, I don't believe that just because someone made a law or proposed the idea that a person had to do something means that they automatically must fall in line. I think tax-evasion is a perfectly valid form of civil disobedience and it appears to me that you imply otherwise.

of course.

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I've had a perfectly wonderful evening......... but this wasn't it. -- Marx

Well, that's a loaded question in my view. Do you want to know what I think governments generally do, or do you want to know what I think a government should do?

I think that it is probably fair to answer, based on what I think you mean, that most people see the function of government as providing one or more of three services: liberty, equality, security. I think it's fair for people to want all three of those, and right now I'm a little confused about which I think is the most important. I tend to think liberty is the most important, which is why I doubt the real need for "the state". I do however understand that the lack of equality and security can sometimes effect people's ability to do that which they choose to do. However, the implementation of polices which are designed to increase security and equality can often hamper the ability of the individual to be free to do that which pleases them.

I was shocked actually when watching the last George Carlin special (sadly the last in more ways than one) to see him close his routine on almost a carbon copy of what I've been saying to my (mostly liberal or centrist) friends for a couple of years. He said that rights were a made up concept. He said that everyone had the freedom to do as the pleased. He ended by saying that he in his estimation had the right to say whatever he wanted and you had the right, if you didn't like it, to kill him.

I've also added to that line of thought that maybe I'm not an anarchist because I believe that it doesn't really matter much if it's the state handing out the consequences of your actions or another person... because it's always people handing out the consequences anyhow. I have trouble with anarchism because I am more interested in individual freedom than the abolition of the government. I think it's an infringement on another's freedom to tell them they must not be governed if they so choose or that they must not govern if they so choose. I believe in individual sovereignty I guess. I believe that people have the freedom to organize as they so choose and that people have the freedom to fight that organization or counter-organize as they please. People have the right to submit to whatever they are willing to submit to.

I guess what I have the hardest time deciding is what I personally am willing to submit to and what my relationship to the government should be.