Thread: Question On The Limousine Windshield?

Originally Posted by porsteamboy

Even though they all said there was a hole, they all gave different locations of the hole, some said it was high in the windshield others said it was low in the windshield and some gave no location. The only thing that we are sure of, is there was a defect in the windshield as shown in Altgens photos and the photo taken at Parkland Hospital and not one witness that said there was a hole, placed it were the defect is shown.

If I see someone in line at a grocery store with bananas in their cart, if I ask them if those are the ones recalled by the FDA for killing people with south America plague? Do you think that family would purchase those bananas?

Your post could very possibly fall into this realm, called disinformation.

Facts are this, windshield spotted by various credible witnesses with a bullet hole in it, from front to back bullet direction. The Gov introducing banana stories, and even banana photos, means what? Holds as much weight as a south America plague.

Originally Posted by ar10

If I see someone in line at a grocery store with bananas in their cart, if I ask them if those are the ones recalled by the FDA for killing people with south America plague? Do you think that family would purchase those bananas?

Your post could very possibly fall into this realm, called disinformation.

Facts are this, windshield spotted by various credible witnesses with a bullet hole in it, from front to back bullet direction. The Gov introducing banana stories, and even banana photos, means what? Holds as much weight as a south America plague.

You see the windshield defect depicted in the Altgens photos, you can see where its located and indicates no hole, one of two crediable witnesses placed the hole high on the windshield, the other low, the other two gave no location, and were never asked. Many witnesses that were behind the Limo near Elm and Houston stated the limo stoped before the head shot but all the witnesses down Elm St. stated that the limo slowed. You can watch any home movie taken that day and can see the limo never stoped but slowed, so its not fact that they saw a hole in the windshield, the fact is, they saw a defect in the windshield and Altgens photo shows they were were wrong about the hole, just like the witnesses that stated the limo stoped.

Originally Posted by ar10

There was to 100% certainty that there was a bullet hole clean through the windshield from a front to back trajectory that was covered up by the secret service along with the police in Dallas, the FBI and the Warren commission.

Let's start with a basic assumption - any bullets flying through the air that day were aimed at John Kennedy, okay?

So... we've got a hole in the windshield, that you believe was on a front to back trajectory. If the target is in the right rearmost seat, and the hole in the windshield is located slightly to the left of the center of the windshield, then the shooter must have been located to the left front of the limousine.

And, Dealey Plaza is on a downgrade. I don't know how much it slopes from Houston Street to the Triple Underpass - how steep a grade it is - but having been there, I can assure you that there is a downgrade.

So any shooter taking this shot is going to have to be lower than the limousine, and located to the left front of it in order to make this shot. Being above the level of the limousine - on top of the Triple Underpass - would make this shot impossible.

Here are a couple pictures of Dealey Plaza --

From the center field grass looking towards the Triple Underpass --


Another closer view of the Triple Underpass --


The view from the sixth floor of the TSBD --


Therefore, the shooter in your scenario would have to be located in front of, or just inside of where Commerce Street goes underneath the Triple Underpass, or else in front of, or just inside where the pedestrian walkway goes through the Triple Underpass to the left of Commerce Street.

But there aren't any reports I can find of anyone witnessing any suspicious activity immediately before, during, or after the assassination in that area.

This picture was taken in the aftermath of the assassination, my best guess is that about :30 seconds have elapsed since the shooting --



The shooter in your scenario would been somewhere in the midst of all those automobiles in the far right of the picture that are going underneath the Triple Underpass on Commerce.

But again, there are no reports of anything suspicious taking place in that area at that time.

So what's not adding up here?

If a photo is worth a thousand words, what is a video worth? In this case, this video shows why Ruby thought it necessary to silence the patsy???

I do not know if this was Ruby, or just another white guy in a dark suit, with a gun, leaving the scene of the murder of the President. I do know this man was a Dallas police officer, I do know his daughter was also a witness, and I think that makes it a credible piece of the puzzle.

I do not see a car, on a sidewalk, where the police officer says the car was parked, but the car could be off the sidewalk over behind the signs, a more credible place to park a get a way car. There must be access to that area by sign people to change the billboards. I can see the get a way car parked in the place where sign workers park.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpygmPChW88"]"ON TRIAL: LEE HARVEY OSWALD" (PART 20)(WITNESS: TOM TILSON) - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by ar10

If a photo is worth a thousand words, what is a video worth? In this case, this video shows why Ruby thought it necessary to silence the patsy???

I do not know if this was Ruby, or just another white guy in a dark suit, with a gun, leaving the scene of the murder of the President. I do know this man was a Dallas police officer, I do know his daughter was also a witness, and I think that makes it a credible piece of the puzzle.

I do not see a car, on a sidewalk, where the police officer says the car was parked, but the car could be off the sidewalk over behind the signs, a more credible place to park a get a way car. There must be access to that area by sign people to change the billboards. I can see the get a way car parked in the place where sign workers park.

If you remember, we discussed Tom Tilson about this time last year in this thread.

My opinion of Tilson hasn't changed since then, I find him to be a less than credible witness.

I base that opinion on two things - First, there are no witnesses that I can find who corroborate Tilson's testimony. Second, there are no photographs that corroborate his story. The only person I've been able to find who will vouch for Tilson's story is his daughter, and she won't go on the record as to what she observed.

Maybe Tilson did see something, I don't know. I just know I need more proof before I can accept his story as being credible.

Originally Posted by ar10

I read two totally different accounts on the destiny of the Limousine windshield. One account states it is in the National Archives, another account, by a Ford worker states it was destroyed and placed in a dumpster.

Do we have any definitive accounts on just exactly why the windshield was replaced and where the defective windshield ended up?

Are there any detailed photographs of the damaged windshield?

Some accounts have a bullet hole in the windshield, and that would discount the three bullets agenda.

yeah there is a pic of the windshield and you see a bullet hole in them so yeah ot discounts the lone nut theory for sure.

This gif file was made by Robin Unger and depicts the official crack and the bullet hole/defect captured by James Altgens, a press photographer. He snapped it at Zapruder frame 255.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ike_Altgens

Harry Russell Freeman, a DPD motorcycle officer.

According to Murder from Within (1974) by Fred T. Newcomb and Perry Adams, Gil Toff interviewed Freeman in 1971 for the book. Toff reported that Freeman said he observed a hole in the windshield when the car stood outside the Emergency Room at Parkland Hospital. "I was right beside it," said Freeman. "I could have touched it. It was a bullet hole. You could tell what it was."

Stavis Ellis, a DPD motorcycle officer.

The day after interviewing Freeman, Gil Toff interviewed Ellis. According to Toff, Ellis told him, "There was a hole in the left front windshield... you could put a pencil through it."

Ellis was also interviewed by Larry Sneed for No More Silence (199. According to Sneed, Ellis reported: I walked by the limousine after they were taken in... Some of the jockeys around the car were saying, 'Looky here!' What they were looking at was the windshield. To the right of where the driver was, just above the metal near the bottom of the glass there appeared to be a bullet hole. I talked to a Secret Service man about it, and he said, 'Aw, that's just a fragment!' It looked like a clean hole in the windshield to me. In fact, one of the motor jockeys, Harry Freeman, put a pencil through it, or said he could.

Originally Posted by porsteamboy

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.c...=44&fullsize=1 Here is Altgens photo #7, you can see the defect in the windshield, just left of the antenna and is in the same location on the windshield in Altgens Photo #6. You really can't tell if there is a hole in the windshield, but white frothing, as I understand it, is indicative of a through and through hole. The fact that that defect is shown in Altgens Photo #6, the defect happened before the head shot, which the WC stated happened from a fragment from the head shot. So, what caused the defect?, it surely wasn't from CE-399.

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.c...ls.php?album=2

Altgens provides conclusive proof of a bullet hole in the windshield captured less than two seconds after jfk was hit in the throat. We see the typical froth and the dark circle indicative of a bullet hole. The official crack is debunked as a fraud because it looks nothing like the real hole, has no chain of custody, and was more right of the mirror. The last pic is NOT FROM JFK'S LIMO.

I see you are smoking dope again. Can't distinguish between light shaddows and bullet holes...poor individual. Do you hug your Jim Mars doll at night?

You see the windshield defect depicted in the Altgens photos, you can see where its located and indicates no hole, one of two crediable witnesses placed the hole high on the windshield, the other low, the other two gave no location, and were never asked. Many witnesses that were behind the Limo near Elm and Houston stated the limo stoped before the head shot but all the witnesses down Elm St. stated that the limo slowed. You can watch any home movie taken that day and can see the limo never stoped but slowed, so its not fact that they saw a hole in the windshield, the fact is, they saw a defect in the windshield and Altgens photo shows they were were wrong about the hole, just like the witnesses that stated the limo stoped.

Reminds me of what's called "snowball effect". If you put 50 people in a line and told the one at the front that you saw lightening, the story would change 50 times before the last person heard it.