Thread: Study;' Bible more violent than the Qur’an

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

Oh - I dunno.

Didn't he once say that he had three objectives - to drag the US into a long and draining conflict, to cripple their economy, and to generate great fear among the people of America?

If those were his tactics, one could well argue they worked v well indeed, no?

Notice how you request evidence, and I supply it and ask for yours, and all you can offer in response is to change the topic of discussion. Typical
And no, Bin Laden never said any such thing. And it was only after 9/11 that people OTHER than Al qaeda began claiming in hindsight that this was Osamas motive. Cant think of his name off the top of my head but an Arab reporter interviewed Bin Laden before 9/11. None of the transcripts of his interviews contained any such thing. None of what he wrote of the interview before 9/11 contained any of this theory. Everything he wrote before 9/11 indicated that Bin Laden wanted the 15,000 troops we had in the middle east before 9/11, out of the middle east. After 9/11, after the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and all of a sudden he claims this is what Bin laden intended all along. Though he has no evidence from Bin Laden to support this theory. Kind of like someone making a silly mistake, and then claiming after the fact, 'I meant to do that' to avoid looking so silly.

Originally Posted by dixon76710

Evidence? Thanks

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

That the US have a long and ignoble history of placing puppets into Gov's of other countries?

Oh come on...are you serious?

Revealing. I asked for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

But you know as well as I do that the US armed Saddam with whatever arsenal he had access to.

for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

Saddam was just one of many useful puppets for the US.

for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

the idealogy of Saddam and Bin Laden, was at odds.

and for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

From what I can gather, they were aware of each other, and were enemies.

And the best you can do in response, is change the topic. Sooooo predictable.

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

That the US have a long and ignoble history of placing puppets into Gov's of other countries??

Yeah but for good reason, only to suppress the expansion of the USSR... it was called the Cold War. You should consider how better off those countries were then the ones the USSR took over, just go visit Eastern Europe and see the beauty and splendor. We should all be thanking the US for stopping the world from becoming like the 1950's industrial wasteland which the USSR couldnt really get ahead off. If it wasn't for the Cold War the US wouldn't have had an interest in the vast majority of those other countries. Dont let reality get in the way of your hatred though.

Originally Posted by axialturban

Yeah but for good reason, only to suppress the expansion of the USSR... it was called the Cold War. You should consider how better off those countries were then the ones the USSR took over, just go visit Eastern Europe and see the beauty and splendor. We should all be thanking the US for stopping the world from becoming like the 1950's industrial wasteland which the USSR couldnt really get ahead off. If it wasn't for the Cold War the US wouldn't have had an interest in the vast majority of those other countries. Dont let reality get in the way of your hatred though.

In actual fact, considering the fact that they were largely a peasant society in 1917, that they experienced decades of Stalin's purges, that they sustained heavy losses during two wars, and especially the second war, and of those who suruvuved all that, many of the brightest chose to migrate - they did exceptionally well.

I wouldn't care to compare how US could have done in those circumstances.

I agree that they never caught up on environmental issues, and I don't know that they would have ... but there are a lot of myths about what life was like in the USSR which are in fact propaganda put out by anti communists.

Originally Posted by cassandrabandra

In actual fact, considering the fact that they were largely a peasant society in 1917, that they experienced decades of Stalin's purges, that they sustained heavy losses during two wars, and especially the second war, and of those who suruvuved all that, many of the brightest chose to migrate - they did exceptionally well.

I wouldn't care to compare how US could have done in those circumstances..

You say that as if they were purely a victim of their circumstances as opposed to the ones who created those circumstances.

Originally Posted by axialturban

Yeah but for good reason, only to suppress the expansion of the USSR... it was called the Cold War. You should consider how better off those countries were then the ones the USSR took over, just go visit Eastern Europe and see the beauty and splendor. We should all be thanking the US for stopping the world from becoming like the 1950's industrial wasteland which the USSR couldnt really get ahead off. If it wasn't for the Cold War the US wouldn't have had an interest in the vast majority of those other countries. Dont let reality get in the way of your hatred though.

Right..so you concede that the US have a long history of orchestrating chaos and using terrorists to depose often elected Gov's....but it's all for a 'good' reason, and therefore, it's all okay, and everyone should thank America.

So, in practice, you support the use of violence to remove a democratically elected leader.

You probably still think Iraqi's are actually pleased that your political elites created an environment which saw the loss of tens of thousands of young Iraqi lives.

Btw - I've been to Eastern Europe. The US didn't collapse Communism, it collapsed in on itself. I have been to Prague, have dated a Polish girl, a Ukrainian girl, and have a friend that is from Romania. I often asked them for their first hand account of what life was really like under state communist rule, compared to how things are now. Their responses are often far more revealing than anything one might read learn in the media.

Jack

Dixon - you don't strike me as a stupid person, I really cannot believe you are asking me for evidence that US political elites backed and supported Saddam.

It's not even a secret.

I furthermore cannot believe you are asking me to give evidence of the long history the US has of putting their own puppet in charge of a given nation, again, this is not secret.

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0908-08.htm

THE US and Britain sold Saddam Hussein the technology and materials Iraq needed to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction.

Reports by the US Senate's committee on banking, housing and urban affairs -- which oversees American exports policy -- reveal that the US, under the successive administrations of Ronald Reagan and George Bush Sr, sold materials including anthrax, VX nerve gas, West Nile fever germs and botulism to Iraq right up until March 1992, as well as germs similar to tuberculosis and pneumonia. Other bacteria sold included brucella melitensis, which damages major organs, and clostridium perfringens, which causes gas gangrene.

The Senate committee's reports on 'US Chemical and Biological Warfare-Related Dual-Use Exports to Iraq', undertaken in 1992 in the wake of the Gulf war, give the date and destination of all US exports. The reports show, for example, that on May 2, 1986, two batches of bacillus anthracis -- the micro-organism that causes anthrax -- were shipped to the Iraqi Ministry of Higher Education, along with two batches of the bacterium clostridium botulinum, the agent that causes deadly botulism poisoning.

All of that said, I think we are drifting from the topic here.

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

Dixon - you don't strike me as a stupid person, I really cannot believe you are asking me for evidence that US political elites backed and supported Saddam.

Revealing. I ask for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

But you know as well as I do that the US armed Saddam with whatever arsenal he had access to

for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

Saddam was just one of many useful puppets for the US.

for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

the idealogy of Saddam and Bin Laden, was at odds.

and for evidence of your claim

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

From what I can gather, they were aware of each other, and were enemies.

and the best you can offer in response is to try and change the topic, twice now. Got ANYTHING relevant to what YOU chose to respond to? Yeah, I didnt think so. Run fast as you can from your own BS. Soooo typical for you.

Dixon, read what I just put up.

The US (and Britain), they sold Saddam the means, to begin with.

However, these had all been destroyed by the UN, long before the invasion of Iraq, and experts found no evidence, nor did they believe that Saddam would have had time or the means to create them all over again.

And I think the experts were right, which is why none were found.

I believe that the US elites and their stooges in Britain knew this anyway, Blair definitely dragged Britain in based on dodgy dossiers, and lies, that is 100% for sure.

I have always maintained that Blair and his cabinet should be put on trial, charged with war crimes, among other things.

See, when I am lied to and misled by my Gov, it really pisses me off.

I love many things about my country, and I love many things about America, but I really have no love for political and corporate elites.

I despise the way that they try to convince us what is best for them, is also best for us, when I think that to be a lie.

I despise the way that war was once something that you only engaged in, in the most serious of all situations, yet both American and British elites have altered that now, and war seems perpetual for them.

These elites and their lies do not represent British people, and I do not believe them to represent American people either.

They represent themselves, by the elites, for the elites.

I suspect you and I would have more in common with one another, than either of us would have with one of those elites.

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

Dixon, read what I just put up.

I read your quote from commondreams.org........LOLOLO LOLOL Your atricle is bs. Knew that the minute I saw the claim that we sold saddam VX Nerve gas. What unadulterated BULL (*)(*)(*)(*). Regardless, your claim is that we sold him " whatever arsenal he had access to" and Ive already provided evidence of, what is common knowledge to most everyone, the USSR supplied Saddam with the overwhelming majority of his arsenal. These few items from the US werent even weapons, let alone an arsenal