Thread: Respect to humane German courts that protects the innocent from harm.

It restores a little faith in humanity, when I learn of stories such as this one today.

Well done that court.

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A German court has ruled that parents can’t have their sons circumcised on religious grounds in a move which has angered Muslim and Jewish groups in the country.

(*)The court in Cologne decided that a legal guardian’s authority over a child does not allow them to subject them to the procedure, which the court called minor bodily harm, reports The Financial Times Deutschland.


Neither does religious freedom, which is protected by law in Germany, give grounds for such decisions to be taken for the children, the ruling says.


The court was considering a case against a Muslim doctor, who performed circumcision on a four-year-old boy at his parents’ request. Two days after the procedure bleeding started, after which the boy had to be taken to hospital.


German authorities learned about the incident and launched a criminal investigation against the doctor. The initial court trial ruled that there was no violation of the law, but the prosecutor’s office took the case to the Cologne district court.


The decision sets a precedent, which may affect medical practice across the country.


The possible ban on circumcision provoked outrage among Jewish and Muslim organizations in Germany, where every year thousands of boys are circumcised in their early years at the request of parents. They regard the ban as a "serious interference in the right to freedom of religion." But none of the organizations so far has commented on the verdict, explaining they first need to study thoroughly the reasoning of the judges.


http://www.rt.com/news/germany-relig...ision-ban-772/

There is a long way to go, but Europe must purge these terribly selfish and entitely ego centric acts of cruelty, onto defenceless little babies.

Although this Cologne case is recent, I did wonder how it compared to laws in other parts of Europe.

I don't want to disclude N America in this at all, but since the lead story was about a German ruling, it made sense to compare there first.

Bulgaria

Male circumcision was very strongly discouraged in Bulgaria in the 1980s as part of attempts to pressure the country's Muslim minority but there was no actual legislation against the practice.

England and Wales

Male circumcision has traditionally been presumed to be legal under British law, however some authors have argued that there is no solid foundation for this view in English law.

The passage of the Human Rights Act 1998 has led to some speculation that the lawfulness of the circumcision of male children is unclear.

Fox and Thomson (2005) argue that consent cannot be given for non-therapeutic circumcision. They say there is "no compelling legal authority for the common view that circumcision is lawful."

In 2005 a Muslim man had his son circumcised against the wishes of the child's mother who was the custodial parent. He was found not guilty of assault occasioning actual bodily harm by a majority verdict of the jury.

In 2009 it was reported that a 20 year old man whose father had him ritually circumcised as a baby is preparing to sue the doctor who circumcised him. This is believed to be the first time a person who was circumcised as an infant has made a claim in the UK. The case is expected to be heard in 2010(???).

Finland

In February 2010, a Jewish couple were fined for causing bodily harm to their then infant son who was circumcised in 2008 by a mohel brought in from the UK. Normal procedure for persons of Jewish faith in Finland is to have a locally certified mohel who works in Finnish healthcare perform the operation. In the 2008 case, the infant was not anesthetized and developed complications that required immediate hospital care. The parents were ordered to pay 1500 euros in damages to their child.

Germany

In October 2006, a Turkish national who performed ritual circumcisions on seven boys was convicted of causing dangerous bodily harm by the state court in Düsseldorf.

In September 2007, a Frankfurt am Main appeals court found that the circumcision of an 11 year old boy without his approval was an unlawful personal injury. Reportedly, the boy, whose parents are divorced, was visiting his Muslim father during a vacation when his father forced him to be ritually circumcised. According to a report by the German ddp press agency, the boy, who lives with his mother, plans to sue his father for 10,000 Euro's.

Ireland.

In October 2005 a Nigerian man was cleared of a charge of reckless endangerment over the death of a baby from haemorrhage and shock after he had circumcised the child. The judge directed the jury not to "bring what he called their white western values to bear when they were deciding this case" and after deliberating for an hour and a half they found the defendant not guilty.

Sweden

In 2001, the Parliament of Sweden enacted a law allowing only persons certified by the National Board of Health to circumcise infants. It requires a medical doctor or an anesthesia nurse to accompany the circumciser and for anaesthetic to be applied beforehand. After the first two months of life circumcisions can only be performed by a physician. The stated purpose of the law was to increase the safety of the procedure.

According to a survey, two out of three paediatric surgeons said they refuse to perform non-therapeutic circumcision, and less than half of all county councils offer it in their hospitals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circumcision_and_law

Originally Posted by gchamblee

<<< MODERATOR EDIT: FLAMEBAIT >>>

Tell that to the mutilated men and women, who have been mutilated by their parents.

Glad you think it is a nothing issue.

Note how you don't actually state your position.

<<< MODERATOR EDIT: OFF TOPIC REPLY TO DELETED POST >>>

mutilated men and women, who have been mutilated by their parents.

LOL...I was circumcised..I don't feel mutilated at all!

I mean seriously, what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by Checkm8r

LOL...I was circumcised..I don't feel mutilated at all!

I mean seriously, what's the big deal?

The 'big deal', is that you do not speak for everyone that has been circumcised.

It must have been a big enough deal to that court in Cologne, perhaps you could have used your winning line to change their minds, I am sure that would have baffled these German legal beaks, eh...

Perhaps we could say, 'hey brained damaged kid, what's your beef, what makes you think you had rights'.

Medical controversy

The practice of metzitzah b'peh was shown to pose a serious risk in the transfer of herpes from mohelim to eight Israeli infants, one of whom suffered brain damage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah

Yeah, actually, big deal eh....

Jesus wept.

Hey kid with herpes.

Worry not, that dirty old man literally was.....dirty.

'In three medical papers done in Israel, Canada, and the USA, oral suction following circumcision was suggested as a cause in 11 cases of neonatal herpes.'


But look here, an old book says you get three shots, you can kill two kids doing it, but that's max.

'Additionally, the Talmud explicitly instructs that a boy must not be circumcised if he had two brothers who died due to complications arising from their circumcisions'


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

Tell that to the mutilated men and women, who have been mutilated by their parents.

Glad you think it is a nothing issue.

Note how you don't actually state your position, which means you are in violation of the rules.

These are being screwed tighter now, so please, state your POV, or move on.

my position is i am circumcised and im glad my parents had it done after birth instead of me having to wait until i was old enough to have to give thought to having skin cut off my dobber. my pov is youre trying to kill flies with a shotgun. <<< MODERATOR EDIT: FLAMEBAIT >>>

this ranks up there with forcing men to pee while sitting down. all i can think is "really?"

Originally Posted by gchamblee

my position is i am circumcised and im glad my parents had it done after birth instead of me having to wait until i was old enough to have to give thought to having skin cut off my dobber. my pov is youre trying to kill flies with a shotgun. <<< MODERATOR EDIT: FLAMEBAIT >>>

Read my last post, and tell me do you find that acceptable, post last but one as well.

<<< MODERATOR EDIT: OFF TOPIC REPLY TO FLAMEBAIT >>>

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

It restores a little faith in humanity, when I learn of stories such as this one today.

Well done that court.

*********

A German court has ruled that parents can’t have their sons circumcised on religious grounds in a move which has angered Muslim and Jewish groups in the country.

...

Yay! Gut gemacht, Deutschland! (that is, well done Germany!) I'm in the same boat with them - proponents of circumcision act like it's no big deal and something beneficial to hygiene, but I just see it as ritualistic maiming & scarring. A man should at least have a choice in the matter.