Thread: Jesus was a Muslim by US Religious professor part 2

Originally Posted by Ronald0

Muslims respect the Bible but believe that much like a lot of Hadith, the authenticity of Bible quotes can not be verified 100% and the Bioble is not in the original form that it was revealed. Proof of it is in the inconsistencies in the Bible. Further, all scriptures have always had a mathematical code against which they can be checked to ascertain the authenticity of a religious text. Today it can be seen in only a few passages of the Bible and Old Testament while it still applies 100% to the Quran.

Christians are not blasphemers, they are simply another religion with other beliefs. Granted that the beliefs of Quran and the Bible were at one time one and the same, but the Bible does not remain in its original form and so the two differ on several issues today.

The First Council of Nicaea(325) and The First Council of Constantinople(381) all came to agreement on the Trinity teaching.

He died and suffered on Earth. How could a divine being, a son of God die or suffer at human hands. The same God who created the humans and rules over the heavens and Earth, is that God so weak?

How can God feel remorse for the Great flood?

H20 years old history is full of errors let along that of 2,000 years ago.

Answered above.

So are you saying that a person who has killed another should not be punished on Earth? What exactly are you trying to say. That verse can be interpreted in a number of ways.

Matthew 5:38-39

38; “You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.'

39; "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also

.

Interestingly, here are a few verses from the Quran:

That's funny then what's the point of Sharia?

Originally Posted by GodTom

The First Council of Nicaea(325) and The First Council of Constantinople(381) all came to agreement on the Trinity teaching.

So? A lot of things happening today we don;t know and will never know. We still don't know the real story behind the Iraq war and possibly 9/11 yet you claim an event that occurred 2,000 years ago is fact. How absurd does that sound?

How can God feel remorse for the Great flood?

Gog is a merciful God because he has feelings. Yet he is ruler over the universe, all powerful and omnipotent. Yes, humanity is his creation and when humanity suffers, God feels the pain. But to say that God could be made to suffer or be killed by simple human being would be demeaning God and denying his greatness.

That's funny then what's the point of Sharia?

You tell me. Are Christian nations not supposed to have any laws? If someone commits a crime, does it not fall under the state's dominion to punish and prosecute the criminal or should be just let loose all thieves and murderers because we are not the ones to judge?

you didn't answer my previous question either. Should I assume it is because you have no answer?

Originally Posted by Ronald0

You would also want to make a note of what the Quran says:


Now are you telling me it is the same God whose name Americans invoke after killing innocent civilians around the world and chanting God bless America. See what I did here.

When the Muslims scream Allah Akbar, they are killing someone to please their god Allah. When we ask for blessings for America, we are asking God to: "Give Us Our Daily Bread". Big difference there!

The thread and the one before was not about which religion was better. It was claim by a religious professor professing that Jesus was a Muslim. If you are Muslim, you believe him to be Muslim, Christians believe him to be Christian and Jews claim he was a Jew. Only one of them is right of course but that is a whole other discussion.

How could Jesus have been a Christian when Christians are followers of Christ? It makes no sense. He was though a Jew, in that he was raised in the Jewish faith. Christ could never be a Muslim since Christ's teachings run contrary to those of Mohamed.

Now if the Muslims truly believe in forgiveness, then why so much hatred towards the Jews for living on land they once lived on?

Our God is different than the Muslim god because our God is self sacrificing, otherwise He wouldn't have suffered every humiliation and pain that someone can suffer in other to redeem mankind. Also our Creator God gave us His Holy Spirit which comforts us so that we will not hate and not be revengeful. I'm not saying that everyone who calls themselves a Christian is really a Christian because in order to be one, they must acquire the Holy Spirit within them, and still, all the millions of Europeans that were refugees in the past century are not sitting in concentration camps to get their land back because they feel Christianity has been humiliated.

Worldly triumph and territorial expansion is part of the religious/political system of Islam, it is not part of Christianity. In Christianity this world belongs to satan, that's why our Lord's prayer says: Thy Kingdom come, They will be done. In other words, when God's Kingdom comes, that's when this world will be His.

Originally Posted by Ronald0

So? A lot of things happening today we don;t know and will never know. We still don't know the real story behind the Iraq war and possibly 9/11 yet you claim an event that occurred 2,000 years ago is fact. How absurd does that sound?

I'm agnostic, but;

It's called faith. Just like you believe Gabriel gave the quran to muhammad in a cave.

You can't prove that gabriel did, but you believe he did.

you also forget that in 300 AD the bishops were using the greek, un translated scriptures.

Gog is a merciful God because he has feelings. Yet he is ruler over the universe, all powerful and omnipotent. Yes, humanity is his creation and when humanity suffers, God feels the pain. But to say that God could be made to suffer or be killed by simple human being would be demeaning God and denying his greatness.

So are you saying Christians are demeaning and denying God's greatness because they believe in the trinity?

How do you know that it wasn't god's will for jesus to die, resurrect and fullfill the prophecies?

Do you believe Christians that practice the Trinity doctrine are sinners?

You tell me. Are Christian nations not supposed to have any laws? If someone commits a crime, does it not fall under the state's dominion to punish and prosecute the criminal or should be just let loose all thieves and murderers because we are not the ones to judge?

A true christan nation wouldn't have criminals.

Can you name some christian nations?

you didn't answer my previous question either. Should I assume it is because you have no answer?

I didn't see another question, what is it?

I'm a freethinker, this is what i think when i see a debate like this.

If God is true, why are we debating him?
If God is omnipotent, why do we fuss?
If God exists, let Him shows the answer Himself. Just wait and see.
As You know, God is All-true and All-powerful.

Originally Posted by Omicron

Hmm... I pity your frustration. Who told you the Reniasance came via Italy?

During the dark ages, after Catholics had forced the burning of all non-Catholic texts, the writings of Plato and Aristotle etc. were kept alive by Islamic scholars in Bagdahd.

What are you talking about? Do you know that all the writings of the Greco/Roman Byzantines were in classical Greek? They were the most highly educated people in the world and they idolized the Greeks of the classical era. One of the major libraries in Constantinople was burned by the Ottomans, but much of the manuscripts had already left either to the monasteries of Mt. Athos, or Italy.

Catholics were scared that Platonic/Aristotelian teachings would corrupt faith, whereas Islamic leaders were so confident in their faith that they did not believe it would hurt anyone to know what Plato and Aristotle had said.

Hmmm! And I thought the teachings of Plato and Aristotle became part of Western Christianity? I guess you know better though?

Islamics were the first to learn paper-making from Chinese (albiet by torturing Chinese paper-makers, it is said), such that for a time Islam was flowing with good, cheap paper books while only rich Eurpeans could afford a few parchment-bound volumes of boring, Catholic-approved stuff.

Well the Islamists must have had the printing press as well, because what good would cheap paper have done them without it.:

Some of those book made their way accross north Africa into southern Spain, and that's where the Reniasance started... not Italy.

Hmmm! And here I always thought it was the Italian Renaissance. Maybe we should call it the Islamic renaissance?

I hope you're joking about what you wrote, but if you're not, here's a little history lesson kid. After the fourth crusade, when Greece and Western Anatolia became crusader states, the Italian maritime nations began to colonize the whole area. It was this contact with the highly educated Greco/Romans, and the Greek teachers that went into Italy and started the Italian Renaissance.

No.

Not Muslim.

Siberian.




Sergey Anatolyevitch Torop, known by his followers as Vissarion (Виссарион), is a Russian mystic. He founded and heads a religious movement known as the Church of the Last Testament with its head church in the Siberian Taiga in the Minusinsk Depression east of Abakan, in the southern Siberia Kuraginsk district of Krasnoyarsk territory. He has around 4,000 followers (called Vissarionites) in around thirty villages in the immediate vicinity of his base at Sun City and approximately 10,000 followers around the world.

Vissarion claims to be a reincarnation of Jesus. He teaches reincarnation, veganism, and the impending end of the world, or at least of civilization as we know it. Vissarion claims to have experienced a mystical revelation in May 1990, when he was 29. He first spoke publicly in Minusinsk on 18 August 1991. He founded the "Church of the Last Testament" (Церковь Последнего Завета Tserkov Poslednego Zaveta), also known as "Community of Unified Faith".

Originally Posted by Ronald0

So? A lot of things happening today we don;t know and will never know. We still don't know the real story behind the Iraq war and possibly 9/11 yet you claim an event that occurred 2,000 years ago is fact. How absurd does that sound?

We know all the facts about the Iraq war and 911. Don't believe for one minute that the majority of the American people are stupid and accept conspiracy theories. We have records and proofs of everything that occured. As for what happened two thousand years ago, Christianity is a religion of faith. When a Christian has faith, then the proof will be there for him to see. Faith though must come first. For example, if I told you that there is something in a certain place and you don't believe me, then you will not see it or find it. If though you have faith in me and are willing to accept what I am saying, then you will see the proof of what I'm telling you.

Gog is a merciful God because he has feelings. Yet he is ruler over the universe, all powerful and omnipotent. Yes, humanity is his creation and when humanity suffers, God feels the pain. But to say that God could be made to suffer or be killed by simple human being would be demeaning God and denying his greatness.

The Muslims can only accept a triumphant god of power because he is a god of this world, and this world belongs to satan. Our God of pure and sacrifical love, is a God of the Heavenly Kingdom, and He has shown us with his sacrifices and the sacrifices of His Prophets/Saints, that we too must become pure in order to unite with Him in His Kingdom.

You tell me. Are Christian nations not supposed to have any laws? If someone commits a crime, does it not fall under the state's dominion to punish and prosecute the criminal or should be just let loose all thieves and murderers because we are not the ones to judge?

Of course we have our own laws and institutions, and we do not want them changed...well at least not the old ones that were established while the country was still a hundred percent Christian.

I wish I could write in large and thick font.

It would HAMMER HOME MY POINT,so much better...

Originally Posted by Jack Napier

No.

Not Muslim.

Siberian.




Sergey Anatolyevitch Torop, known by his followers as Vissarion (Виссарион), is a Russian mystic. He founded and heads a religious movement known as the Church of the Last Testament with its head church in the Siberian Taiga in the Minusinsk Depression east of Abakan, in the southern Siberia Kuraginsk district of Krasnoyarsk territory. He has around 4,000 followers (called Vissarionites) in around thirty villages in the immediate vicinity of his base at Sun City and approximately 10,000 followers around the world.

Vissarion claims to be a reincarnation of Jesus. He teaches reincarnation, veganism, and the impending end of the world, or at least of civilization as we know it. Vissarion claims to have experienced a mystical revelation in May 1990, when he was 29. He first spoke publicly in Minusinsk on 18 August 1991. He founded the "Church of the Last Testament" (Церковь Последнего Завета Tserkov Poslednego Zaveta), also known as "Community of Unified Faith".

Didn't Jesus say many will come in my name and say he is the Christ? As for revelations, all the thousands of Christian Prophets/Saints have had revelations, and the proof that those revelations came from God and not from another source, was their heroic and the almost impossible virtuous life they lived, and also the many miracles attributed to their intercession with God after death.