And let's not forget another item: the Bush administration embraced the NK deal for more than a year. Construction on the first reactor didn't even begin until 2002. If it was such a clearly bad idea, why did Bush go along with it?

__________________
Man up.

...did they withdraw or threaten to withdraw? When did their program start backup? Lets see Bush has been in office for 5 years how much work has he done to see that they didn't get to this point? I could go with the Clinton theory if Bush had only been in office for 1 year, but he has been here going on 6 years, but its Clinton's fault, lay-off the Kool-aid.

Peace.

__________________
E.Pluribus Unum

People of power have NO good will and people of good will have NO power.

If you think Education is Expensive try Ignorance.

I don't know if "embraced" is the right word -- the Bush admin did a comprehensive policy review after taking office and even played around with the idea of substituting conventional power stations for the LWRs, though that idea was eventually abandoned. It also dragged its feet on the reactors, demanding that NK allow IAEA inspectors to verify compliance with the agreement before construction began. In the meantime, they were finding out that North Korea was receiving nuclear technology through Pakistan in exchange for missle parts.

...alot like the Mark Foley scandal blame the other guy it is his fault.

Peace.

__________________
E.Pluribus Unum

People of power have NO good will and people of good will have NO power.

If you think Education is Expensive try Ignorance.

They threatened to withdraw in 1994, which led to the Carter deal. They formally withdrew in 2003, after we found out about their clandestine activity and halted oil shipments. Shortly thereafter, the seals were broken on the on older equipment, but the the program itself never stopped (they were secretly working through Pakistan on uranium enrichment).

To which point? Collecting material? Constructing a bomb? Testing a dud nuke? We don't even know how long they've had nukes or to my knowledge whether it's an enriched uranium or plutonium based A-bomb.

We know they first claimed to have them in early 2005.

It's not a "theory" it's a fact -- I suggest you do some reading. Whether or not you think Bush or Clinton did the right thing, the facts are the same.

Fair enough. But the point remains that they continued the policy.

I thought the Agreed Framework was a worthy effort to resolve a very intractable situation, based on verifiable moves by NK to minimize the need to trust such an untrustworthy nation. It didn't work out, but it was worth a try.

__________________
Man up.

The funny thing is, they technically held up their end of the deal -- they didn't attempt to reprocess plutonium until the deal was broken.

If there's any lesson to be learned from our dealings with the Axis of Evil, it's that we have to do a much, much better job with intelligence -- we need more good, old-fashioned spies.

Hmmmm like I said before according to your theory you can't just blame Carter and Clinton and leap frog Reagan and Bush.

Peace.

__________________
E.Pluribus Unum

People of power have NO good will and people of good will have NO power.

If you think Education is Expensive try Ignorance.

We have just witnessed the opposite of deterrence. Bush calls NK part of the "Axis of Evil," then goes and attacks one leg of the tripod. The other two "Evil Doers" see that the only way they can deter the "Allies of Righteousness" is by ramping up their nuclear programs. George Bush, that's 2 strikes in 2 pitches. Should have been more patient with Iraq in terms of inspectors and especially gathering a real coalition, not to mention planning. Instead in we went in by the seat of our Texas pants, we broke it, and we definitely bought it as Powell might say, mired down now for the count. Meanwhile, the other two Evil members can effectively deter us. If we sit down to 2-party talks with NK, we embolden other countries who seek a setting at the table of power. If we do nothing, we embolden other countries who also want to slurp from the chalice of destiny. A few years ago Bush named NK as a true threat, as Evil. Sorry Bush heavy-petters; this one belongs to W. 5 years is an eternity even without the defining moment of the last 50 years starting it off. The true test: Get China to step up and heel its pet.

Spare the stick, spoil the child.

__________________
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;

Brutha, please do a little research. Neither Reagan or Bush 41 had anything to do with the Agreed Framework. FORMER president Carter went to Korea at the behest of Clinton in 1994. It has nothing to do with the Carter presidency.

__________________
Do you know what it's like to fall in the mud and get kicked... in the head... with an iron boot? Of course you don't, no one does. It never happens. It's a dumb question... skip it.