Water-boarding...thats deplorable...

Why does everyone act like we DIDNT create the Muhahadeen, for Unicol, then instilled them with anti-western sentiment by screwing them on oil deals...
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9/11 wasn't real...too much profit, too many surviving hi-jackers...Silverstein, the list goes on and on..

The federal story doesnt add up...

they namely want to torture...you

Below is a link of a man actually having this practiced on him...

http://infowars.com/articles/ps/tort...th_in_face.htm

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

Is steve doocy right?...just a little washclothe...no big deal?

How has this once great nation fallen so far...oh yeah...AMERICA DOESNT EXIST ANYMORE...

just ask the PNAC..

Excuse this somewhat overly-coincidental reference to a famous Hallowe'en radio play, "The War of the Worlds" of Orson Welles, who ended that program by reminding us they were only jumping out of a bush to say Boo.

What you're talking about in the two paragraphs above is our way of saying Boo...of scaring him into telling the truth.

Whassamatter here? You don't like an effective tale of terror, served up cold? Wait till the pros come in and start playing with people's heads.

Quiet factoids indeed.

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Delivering tasty bite-sized Clues to liberals since 1965.

Then why do they so rarely give up RELIABLE information? Information gathered during torture can not be used as admissible evidence in court. Not even tribunals.

If they are who they say they are, I want them tried, found guilty, and executed...not tortured.

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America is a melting pot, the people at the bottom get burned while all the scum floats to the top.
- - - Charlie King

If the party isn't ashamed of water-boarding, why won't Tony Snow admit to it during the White House press briefing??? Most likely the administration realizes that the majority of the American people would not support waterboarding/torture. I don't believe legal retribution is a concern for this administration, they don't seem to worry about legalities.

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I've been informed....don't blame Bush, he's "not in control"
That must make him out of control

Take the intelligence game as a whole, there are dozens of ways to dispute your central premise. You do not know the information was NOT reliable, so you can't say RARELY. In fact, no matter how you juggle wording, one clear thing needs to be recalled here.

We are not in the business of telling our enemies what we do or do not know about the enemy's own activities. This is not simplistic, this is essential. The reason it is essential is that a lack of public information may NOT mean a paucity of data held, evaluated, and countermeasures enacted.

"May" of course is your leverage point as well as mine. But I think anyone whining that military secrets are NOT being leaked has a whole lot less room to wriggle if state secrets are leaked by big-time Dems (like the NSA surveillance of terrorist money conduits).

Argue right and wrong about torture, but don't expect intelligence agencies to appease your lack of knowledge. They have larger wars to fight than pleasing just you.

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Delivering tasty bite-sized Clues to liberals since 1965.

I dont care what information was recieved and I dont want to know.

My concerns are; our country is taking a 300 step backwards by torturing. Its fine if that doesnt bother you, but what should bother you is that the information gathered during 'coercive interrogation' is RARELY reliable. (And you can not prove to me that it is reliable even half the time). So is it worth it?

Consider this...I know that your realist mind (thats not an insult) can at least grasp this point.

In 50 years what fact will be told in the history books?

A) We saved a couple people from dying with intelligence gathered

-or-

B) We torture

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America is a melting pot, the people at the bottom get burned while all the scum floats to the top.
- - - Charlie King

Quiller, you amaze me.

You seem like a pretty smart guy - certainly you have a way with words.

But you're placing an awful lot of trust in our "agencies", aren't you?

If I read you right, you're asking me (or "We the People") to just turn our backs and trust these guys to do the right thing.

I'm sorry, but I can't do that. As far as I can tell, that's the whole point of the "checks and balances" that our Founding Fathers institutionalized into our Constitution and our various political structures.

People are fallible. Period. On any given day, someone who used to be an upstanding citizen, might get desperate and do something dastardly. That's just human nature, that's the way it is - and our Founding Fathers recognized that, and that's why we have oversight, and (on a good day) accountability, and things like that.

And that's also why, we have a free and independent media - for that exact purpose. So we can "circumvent" what the government is portraying as the truth, and get right down into the dirty nitty-gritty of what's really going on.

Waterboarding is just a case in point. It's not really all that significant in the global scheme of things, 'cause we've done a lot worse over the years. Surely you know that, right? Didn't I hear you say you were in Vietnam at one point? If that's the case, then surely you've seen some of that stuff first-hand, right?

There's no free lunch on this stuff, Quill - surely you know that as well as I do.

But if we have to become dastardly to fight the dastards, then we've lost before we've even started.

Does that make sense to you? Or am I wasting my breath?

People who Love the Constitution care. People who love Jesus care. People who considered our selves better than terrorists care.

I don't see a lot of pro-American pacifists signing up to direct the military from within. Even Gore tried it, so why can't other libs whose fathers are not important senators?

The patriot doesn't do push-polling or form debate committees in order to know where he or she stands about America. Our certaintude is poisonous to the liberal mindset, which ever-evolves, accepting no firm base on its shifting sands of flagrant idiocy.

The patriot knows that even upon military discharge, that enlistment-oath is still valid for an entire lifetime. It doesn't say it that way---but it's true. We swear to uphold and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies foreign or domestic.

The patriot knows who our domestic enemies really are. We got them out in 1994. All of us---in elections even our courts agreed were fair.

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Delivering tasty bite-sized Clues to liberals since 1965.