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Thread: Michael Oren falls on his face

  1. Default Michael Oren falls on his face

    *Full footage in link*


    http://mondoweiss.net/2012/04/60-min...ng-israel.html


    The above story ran on 60 Minutes tonight. It's a powerful piece showing life under occupation, and a (*)(*)(*)(*)ing portrait of Michael Oren as the chief spokesperson for Israel's unjust control over the West Bank. On the onerous permit regime that limits freedom of movement and defines Palestinian existence in the occupied territories Oren says, "It's their inconvenience, it's our survival." Oren tries to blame the dwindling Christian community in the West Bank on Islamic extremism, and Palestinian Christians interviewed nearly break out laughing. Not surprisingly, Oren calls Israel's Christian critics anti-Semites.

    But perhaps the most revealing part of the show was Bob Simon sharing that Oren had complained to CBS News head Jeff Fager before the segment had even been aired, calling it "a hatchet job."

    For Israel, there could be serious economic consequences. According to Israeli government figures, tourism is a multi billion dollar business there. Most tourists are Christian. Many of them are American. That's one reason why Israelis are very sensitive about their image in the United States. And that could be why Ambassador Oren phoned Jeff Fager, the head of CBS News and executive producer of 60 Minutes, while we were still reporting the story, long before tonight's broadcast. He said he had information our story was quote: "a hatchet job."

    Michael Oren: It seemed to me outrageous. Completely incomprehensible that at a time when these communities, Christian communities throughout the Middle East are being oppressed and massacred, when churches are being burnt, when one of the great stories in history is unfolding? I think it's-- I think it's-- I think you got me a little bit mystified.

    Bob Simon: And it was a reason to call the president of-- chairman of CBS News?

    Michael Oren: Bob, I'm the ambassador of the State of Israel. I do that very, very infrequently as ambassador. It's just-- that's an extraordinary move for me to complain about something. When I heard that you were going to do a story about Christians in the Holy Land and my assum-- and-- and had, I believe, information about the nature of it, and it's been confirmed by this interview today.

    Bob Simon: Nothing's been confirmed by the interview, Mr. Ambassador, because you don't know what's going to be put on air.

    Michael Oren: Okay. I don't. True.

    Bob Simon: Mr. Ambassador, I've been doing this a long time. And I've received lots of reactions from just about everyone I've done stories about. But I've never gotten a reaction before from a story that hasn't been broadcast yet.

    Michael Oren: Well, there's a first time for everything, Bob.
    Manis Friedman;
    "I don’t believe in western morality, i.e. don’t kill civilians or children, don’t destroy holy sites, don’t fight during holiday seasons, don’t bomb cemeteries, don’t shoot until they shoot first because it is immoral.
    The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: "Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)."

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  3. Default THAT Michael Oren?

    Many thanks for bringing our attention to that episode, exposing yet another case of Israel blaming its opponents for woes in the 'holy land'. But in this case we have senior representatives of the Palestinian Christian community refuting the standard Israeli version by denying that it is Islamic fanaticism that is driving Christians away, but that it is the consequence of Israeli policies.

    And I note the farcical complaint by Oren to the two top officials of CBS of a ‘hatchet job’ even before the programme was aired (OMG that was just so lame), because it provides us with yet another piece of evidence to show to those who deny that Israel has an active campaign to manipulate mainstream US media into minimising reporting of news critical of Israel. It fits just perfectly as confirmation of a recent thread regarding Rick Steves claiming that he was duped by the US media.

    Jack, am I correct in presuming that this is the same Michael Oren who wrote "Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East". That is the book that most scholarly lay folk referred to regarding the June 1967 war until Tom Segev produced his more in-depth account “1967” (which included records from Knesset and Israeli War Cabinet meetings, memoirs, letters, autobiographies, etc.). I will bear this manipulative trait in mind when Oren is cited as the top authority on the 1966/1967 wars.
    I deal in facts. If anyone finds 'facts' to be anti-Semetic; Jew hating, neo-Nazi; Islamo-fascist, etc, I disclaim any responsibility for their delusions

  4. Default

    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, .. Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, ..Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam


    Zionism is criminal by default.

  5. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by klipkap View Post
    Jack, am I correct in presuming that this is the same Michael Oren who wrote "Six Days of War: June 1967 and the Making of the Modern Middle East". That is the book that most scholarly lay folk referred to regarding the June 1967 war until Tom Segev produced his more in-depth account “1967” (which included records from Knesset and Israeli War Cabinet meetings, memoirs, letters, autobiographies, etc.). I will bear this manipulative trait in mind when Oren is cited as the top authority on the 1966/1967 wars.
    Yes it is, Norman Finkelstien even puts a section in his book "Image and Reality" regarding Oren's book.

  6. Default

    With 122,000 Arab Christians living in Israel, as Arab citizens of Israel, this is one of the biggest Arab Christian communities in the world. It is also the only Arab Christian community in the Middle East which experiences a net population growth. Those form an 80% majority of the Christians in Israel, with smaller Christian communities of ethnic Russians, Greeks, Armenians, Maronites, Ukrainians and Assyrians. The majority of Arab Christians in Israel belong to the Greek Orthodox Church, with a sizeable minority belonging to the Greek Catholic (Melkite) and Latin Churches. Some of Arab Christians in Israel self-identify as Palestinian Arab Christians.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Christians#Israel


    Less than 50,000 Palestinian Christians live under the jurisdiction of Palestinian National Authority across the West Bank and a tiny community of about 1,000 under the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip. The Palestinian Christian population, which is almost entirely Arab, has significantly reduced over last decades, as a result of increasing immigration of Christians outside of the Palestinian Authority controlled territories and out of the Gaza strip.

    While many Palestinian Arab Christians hold high ranked positions in the Palestinian society, there are also cases of religious persecution by radical Muslim elements. Both the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, George Habash, and the founder if its offshoot the DFLP, Nayif Hawatmeh, were Arab Christians, as is prominent Palestinian activist and former Palestinian Authority minister Hanan Ashrawi. Israeli historian Benny Morris writes that Christian-Muslim relations constitute a divisive element in Palestinian society.[28] The situation in the West Bank is considerably better for the Arab Christians, compared with the Gaza strip, where since the Hamas take-over in 2007, the Arab Christian community of several thousand strong has almost entirely fled to the West Bank and abroad.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Ch...ority_and_Gaza
    Jerusalem appears in the Jewish Bible 669 times...The Christian Bible mentions Jerusalem 154 times. In contrast, Jerusalem appears as frequently in the Qur'an as it does in the Hindu Bhagavad-Gita—which is to say, not once.


  7. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    Oren tries to blame the dwindling Christian community in the West Bank on Islamic extremism, and Palestinian Christians interviewed nearly break out laughing. Not surprisingly, Oren calls Israel's Christian critics anti-Semites.
    What you mean tries to blame? The dwindling Christian community in the so-called West Bank like the increasingly dwindling Christian communities throughout the Islamic world are due to violent oppression and systematic persecution of Christians perpetrated by Muslims per the dictates of Islam that is not only taking place in the so-called West Bank and in Hamastan, but is taking place in epidemic proportions throughout the Islamic world.

    Here, reference the Gatestone Institute's Muslim Persecution of Christians: March 2012 report right here. At the end of the report, there are also reports for February 2012, January 2012, December 2011, November 2011, October 2011, September 2011, August 2011, and July 2011 in case anyone is interested in learning what the truth really is.

    Indeed, Islam is not a genuine faith based religion as it pretends to be, but a supremacist theo-political totalitarian ideology that aims to take over and subjugate the world into a very draconian form of Islamic totalitarianism, and the permanent jihad of conquest being waged perpetually against the Jewish unbelievers in Israel, which is just one of many such jihads of conquest also being waged perpetually against many various unbelievers around the world, such as the Christians in Nigeria and the Hindus in Kashmir, is part of that worldwide global jihad aimed at subjugating the world into a very draconian form of Islamic totalitarianism via the imposition of Sharia.

    In fact, the first and foremost tenet of Islam is the total, complete, and unconditional submission to the will of Allah where the freedom of conscience is forbidden, and to enforce that first and foremost tenet of Islam, blasphemy and apostasy under Islam are capital offenses.

    As a matter of fact, the word “Islam” in Arabic means “submission” and the word “Muslim” in Arabic means “one who submits.” Indeed, Islam is 100 percent totalitarian and its main goal, fundamental mission, and sole purpose is to subjugate the entire world under its very draconian form of Islamic totalitarianism, and that is what is really transpiring in Israel today.

    Open up your eyes and take a look at the Islamic world today, it's nothing but a big draconian totalitarian hellhole and a complete and utter failure, as any and all Muslims that denounce Islam publicly are subjected to capital punishment. Indeed, there is no faith in Islam. All mainstream orthodox Muslims are either violent or covert and deceptive non-violent jihadists, or otherwise they are blasphemous apostates that per the dictates of mainstream orthodox Islam must be executed.

    Hence, mass Muslim immigration to the West is really covert and deceptive non-violent jihad for the purpose of mass Muslim infiltration and stealth demographic conquest, and it is exactly because of the success of mass Muslim infiltration in all of our major institutions including our news medias, colleges and universities, public school systems, political parties, federal government, and political elites that it is able to manifest today with total and complete impunity at the same time we are bankrupting ourselves in order to continue accommodating it. It's literally insane and a total indictment on all our political elites.
    Political correctness demands that Islam be thought of as inherently peaceful and tolerant, and no explorations of its history and doctrines that would lead to a contrary view may be presented.

    Do heavy-handed tyrants—Saddam, Mubarak, Qaddafi, et al—create brutal societies, or do naturally brutal societies create the need for heavy-handed tyrants to keep order?

  8. Default

    The neozionists have a reputation for caring for the cradle of christianity at Bethlehem;



    Americans can help liberate Bethlehem by kicking their Congressmen's ass. AIPAC has bought him.
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, .. Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, ..Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam


    Zionism is criminal by default.

  9. Default

    The hard life of Christians in Bethlehem


    Living as part of a Christian minority in a predominately Middle Eastern Muslim society was not any easier. This double bind spelt doom for 400,000 other Palestinian Christians and forced 80 per cent of them to leave the land of their ancestors during the past 40 years.

    Ongoing apathy by a majority of American evangelical Christians has also indirectly contributed to the Palestinian Christian exodus.

    http://www.eurekastreet.com.au/article.aspx?aeid=3791
    Professor Abe W. Ata was a temporary delegate to the UN in 1970 and has lived and worked in the Middle East, America and Australia. Dr Ata is a ninth-generation Christian Palestinian academic born in Bethlehem, and currently works at the Australian Catholic University.
    Not a bad qualification.
    The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, .. Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
    Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, ..Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

    Omar Khayyam


    Zionism is criminal by default.

  10. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post
    *Full footage in link*But in this case we have senior representatives of the Palestinian Christian community refuting the standard Israeli version by denying that it is Islamic fanaticism that is driving Christians away, but that it is the consequence of Israeli policies.
    Yeah right, but if those violently oppressed and systematically persecuted Christian dhimmis so much as claim otherwise, the remaining Christian community would soon be obliterated, not by Islamic fanaticism, but by mainstream orthodox Islam. You are very conveniently ignoring the obvious fact that those Christian dhimmis are being coerced and the very obvious Stockholm Syndrome effect that occurs everywhere else under those same circumstances. Hopefully, you are not expecting the rest of us to be that incredibly naďve and gullible as you are too.

    It's not Islamic fanatics that are the problem, as all those so-called Islamic fanatics are really all mainstream orthodox Muslims. It's mainstream orthodox Islam that is the problem, as Islam is really a supremacist theo-political totalitarian ideology that masquerades as being a faith-based religion in order to dupe gullible useful idiots and the societies it intends to subjugate into a very draconian form of Islamic totalitarianism via the imposition of Sharia. I'm sorry but there is no faith in Islam, as every Muslim on earth is either a violent jihadist or a covert and deceptive non-violent jihadist, or otherwise they are blasphemous apostates that per the dictates of mainstream orthodox Islam must be executed.

    I know, I know, it's just another lame strawman argument.
    Political correctness demands that Islam be thought of as inherently peaceful and tolerant, and no explorations of its history and doctrines that would lead to a contrary view may be presented.

    Do heavy-handed tyrants—Saddam, Mubarak, Qaddafi, et al—create brutal societies, or do naturally brutal societies create the need for heavy-handed tyrants to keep order?

  11. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamaYoMoma View Post
    Yeah right, but if those violently oppressed and systematically persecuted Christian dhimmis so much as claim otherwise, the remaining Christian community would soon be obliterated, not by Islamic fanaticism, but by mainstream orthodox Islam. You are very conveniently ignoring the obvious fact that those Christian dhimmis are being coerced and the very obvious Stockholm Syndrome effect that occurs everywhere else under those same circumstances. Hopefully, you are not expecting the rest of us to be that incredibly naďve and gullible as you are too.

    It's not Islamic fanatics that are the problem, as all those so-called Islamic fanatics are really all mainstream orthodox Muslims. It's mainstream orthodox Islam that is the problem, as Islam is really a supremacist theo-political totalitarian ideology that masquerades as being a faith-based religion in order to dupe gullible useful idiots and the societies it intends to subjugate into a very draconian form of Islamic totalitarianism via the imposition of Sharia. I'm sorry but there is no faith in Islam, as every Muslim on earth is either a violent jihadist or a covert and deceptive non-violent jihadist, or otherwise they are blasphemous apostates that per the dictates of mainstream orthodox Islam must be executed.

    I know, I know, it's just another lame strawman argument.
    So sad...

    There are Arab Christians who do critisize Arab Muslims (look at Bridgette Gabriel), yet the Lebanese Christian community in Lebanon has not been massacred. I don't think our Christian President would let something like that happen

    All hail Robert Spencer, right? lol

    Palestinian Christians said it themselves, who's word is more valuable, people who have experienced and continue to experience the oppression of the "Israeli" government, or you? It's an easy choice.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~
    لا اله الا الله محمد راسول الله
    (There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger)
    الله اكبر
    (Allah is Great)
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~

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