Good post....Naturally I dont agree with you on everything but I definitely respect the fact that you have beliefs that arent 100% partisan.

Im sure if people read some of my posts they would think im a hardcore liberal. While I am on most social issues I definitely see a lot of Conservative viewpoints that I think are pretty much common sense and I get baffled as to why some Liberals have issues with them.

As far as the "oversexualization" of our nation---I agree and disagree at the same time. As far as consenting adults go, I dont see a thing wrong with it. I say sleep with whoever you want, whenever you want to sleep with them. As a whole I think Americans are big time prudes when it comes to that issue.

But I agree with you when it comes to minors. Kids these days are "maturing" (for lack of a better word) younger and younger. This may not sound right, but honestly its hard to tell a 14 year old girl apart from an 18 year old these days unless you are up close to them in some cases. They wear skimpy clothing, loads of makeup and act in a similar fashion.

Whats even worse is the young kids are doing these sorts of things now more and more...Im talking about kids 13 and under. You hear horror stories all the time about 12 and 13 year old girls who are pregnant. Im sure you read the same story I did that showed that 1 in 4 teenage girls has an STD of some kind....Its just gotten out of hand.

Like you I support the legalization or decriminalization of Marijuana....I favor it for other drugs as well, but we wont get into that. My point though is I support these things for ADULTS. That is why we have age restrictions for drinking, for getting into night clubs, for driving, and for enlisting.....Heck you even have to be of certain ages to get elected to office....

But kids these days are having sex younger and younger and its definitely bringing down our society. We are in full agreement on that. Where we probably disagree is on the best way to handle it.

And thats something that is an ongoing debate and where I think both sides raise different points that are valid and invalid for different reasons.

You seem like a reasonable guy and I look forward to that debate with you.

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"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

I'd just like to note that I love your avatar. Al Bundy for the win.

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Thank you...Best character in TV history!!

My wife just loves my No Ma'am t-shirt that I wear around all the time lol.

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"The marvel of all history is the patience with which men and women submit to burdens unnecessarily laid upon them by their governments"

--George Washington

"Never spend your money before you have earned it."

--Thomas Jefferson

"One man with courage is a majority."

--Thomas Jefferson

Polk High ftw.

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3 touchdowns in a single game.

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"True Freedom is the Freedom to oppress others"

Iran is a participant in the killing of American military personal. Every day in the news they are behind this or that. Do what the Russians did in Chetyna. In one week blow up all their government installations. Destroy their command and control capabilities. Target all their military installations. Take out key industries. Attempt to minimize civilian casualties. Chetyna was really beginning to cause Russia problems. After dealing with them in this way we don't hear too much from them anymore. The estimate on collateral damage is one million civilians killed but do you think that bothers the Russians?

The phrase 'common sense' has been used by various people in this thread which has prompted me to question the notion and hence the underlying assumptions of those who blindly use it as a means to counter a particular point of view. The phrase common sense for those who liberally use it in this way, is deemed to be an uncontentious notion. Such people, use the phrase as a means to counter a particular point view. After all, surely there must be a some kind of sense that is common to us all, a universal set of 'givens' that transcend party political alliegance and contending ideologies, as akc814ilv alluded to in a previous post on this thread? Anybody who dares question this notion of common sense, is deemed to be a little crazy.

However, I posit that 'common sense' is a highly contentious phrase and merely reflects the prevailing socio-economic conditions in any given historical epoch. Both Karl Marx and later Einstein, were well aware of the nullifying effects of attributing 'common sense' to any argument or debate. For both these great thinkers, common sense was an abstract, and therefore, by extention, a meaningless phrase. Common sense for them (and for me) merely explains aspects in reality that are bound by what are perceptible to the human senses on the surface. For both Marx and Einstein, it was the 'essence' of things that trumped 'the appearance' of things.

In this way, it was possible for scientific discovery to underscore a prevailing set of assumptions, and hence challenge existing bigotries and prejudices. Let me cite some examples of what Marx and Einstein were talking about:

According to physical 'appearances' from the perspective of us on this planet of ours, the earth is flat and does not move. For centuries it was considered to be 'common sense' that the earth was not only stable and fixed within the centre of the universe, but that the sun revolved around the earth. However, thanks to Copernicus and Gallileo we now know that the notion of 'common sense' used in this context, is in reality more akin to 'common idiocy'. Why? Because we know that the reverse is true - the earth is not the centre of the universe and we revolve around the sun.

So in order to discover the truth it is necessary to explore beneath the surface or 'appearance' of things and examine their 'essence'. We do this through scientific research and discovery. It was in this context that Marx famously said: "If essence and appearance coincided then science would become obsolete." Einstein put it like this: "Common sense", he said, "is nothing more than years and years of accumulated prejudice and bigotry."

So I suggest that people always be wary of other people who use the phrase "common sense" in an argument or discussion, because the likelihood is, is that the common sense they speak of, is nothing more than stupidity based on ignorance and prejudice.

Most people simply mean "logic" when they use the phrase. It could be common sense to think that the world was flat, because that was how it appeared to be, but it would not be logical with what people have observed.

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"You are just stuck in a box."

--Zaro

Whether one describes it as either logic or common sense in the context that i have suggested is a moot point. My point was to illustrate is that common sense (logic) when used in an argument is fascile in that the term is too abstract - in the same way that words like "terrorism", "liberty", "democracy", "freedom" are. Marx's and Einsteins critique of "common sense" and the people that blindly use it in arguments, stand.

The same way words like "hope" "change" "universal" are used. It's all rhetoric.

Some things are commonly known and make sense, and therefore make it common sense. Trying to over analyze the minutiae aspects of speech distracts from the intentions of this thread and, as such, is off topic.

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