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  #81 (permalink)  
Old 11-29-2008, 10:23 AM
catawba catawba is offline
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Originally Posted by calmObserver View Post
in the meantime cat. i would like your response to this;

IRAQ: War Launched to Protect Israel - Bush Adviser


and before you past him off as a nobody make sure you understand some of his background.
I don't buy it, and here is why: After our Gulf war and 10 years of sanctions, Iraq did not have the capability to be a threat to Israel, and the U.S. military and the administration was aware of this.
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  #82 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2008, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by catawba View Post
I don't buy it, and here is why: After our Gulf war and 10 years of sanctions, Iraq did not have the capability to be a threat to Israel, and the U.S. military and the administration was aware of this.
so why in 1996 did a group that included, perle, feith, wurmser, and others write A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm;

Quote:
Israel can shape its strategic environment, in cooperation with Turkey and Jordan, by weakening, containing, and even rolling back Syria. This effort can focus on removing Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq — an important Israeli strategic objective in its own right — as a means of foiling Syria’s regional ambitions.
and then in 1998, in an open letter to clinton;

Quote:
It is clear that this [saddam] danger cannot be eliminated as long as our objective is simply "containment,"...

Saddam's long record of treaty violations, deception, and violence shows that diplomacy and arms control will not constrain him...

What is needed now is a comprehensive political and military strategy for bringing down Saddam and his regime.
this signed by, among others; perle , abrams, feith, rumsfeld, wolfowitz...

and where to we find these folks when 9/11 occurrs...hmm? and who is the first to call, according to military personal presentaccording to military personal present , for attacking irag?

remember cat;
  • motive ~ to secure the realm
  • intent ~ 'clean break' and letter to clinton
  • opportunity ~ at the center of storm calling for attack on iraq
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  #83 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2008, 01:47 PM
cialis daily cialis daily is offline
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Yes I agree with you!
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  #84 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2008, 01:52 PM
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well this may be the kiss of death on the subject; Top Shiite Cleric in Iraq Raises Concerns About Security Pact. the current administration, incapable of doing the "checkables", once again finds, to its utter amazement, it will have to deal with the grand ayatollah sistani. one trip to my cowtown library told me that so why can't these smart, high paid, vatos figure it out?

Quote:
Sistani’s public concerns about the deal are likely to damage the hopes of winning the referendum among a public already wary (and in some cases, dramatically opposed) to the SOFA. for more...
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Old 11-30-2008, 02:47 PM
Latherty Latherty is offline
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Originally Posted by calmObserver View Post
so why in 1996 did a group that included, perle, feith, wurmser, and others write A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm;
I think the better question is:

Why did Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield pressure Franks to scale down the invasion force to 275,000 that could conquer Iraq in 45 days?

Does that sound like the kinda opponent that poses a genuine threat?
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Old 11-30-2008, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by calmObserver View Post
so why in 1996 did a group that included, perle, feith, wurmser, and others write A Clean Break: A New Strategy for Securing the Realm;



and then in 1998, in an open letter to clinton;



this signed by, among others; perle , abrams, feith, rumsfeld, wolfowitz...

and where to we find these folks when 9/11 occurrs...hmm? and who is the first to call, according to military personal present, for attacking irag?

remember cat;
  • motive ~ to secure the realm
  • intent ~ 'clean break' and letter to clinton
  • opportunity ~ at the center of storm calling for attack on iraq
An interesting anecdotal read. I see nothing definitive however that makes the case for Iraq being a threat to the U.S., or Israel for that matter.
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  #87 (permalink)  
Old 11-30-2008, 10:19 PM
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Calm, Still waiting to hear your thoughts on the info in this link:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic8382.html
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  #88 (permalink)  
Old 12-02-2008, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by catawba View Post
An interesting anecdotal read...
hardly humorous ~ their words, their plan...and look where it has got us. i believe if you read what they wrote you would find that it was part of their big plan to reagrange the middle east, and secure the realm.

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Originally Posted by catawba View Post
...I see nothing definitive however that makes the case for Iraq being a threat to the U.S., or Israel for that matter.
earth to cat ~ you we not the one calling the shots ~ now were you?

Quote:
Bush also spoke candidly about why the US was going to war during a White House meeting on Feb. 27, 2003, just three weeks before the invasion. In a talk with Elie Wiesel, the well-known Jewish writer, Bush said: “If we don’t disarm Saddam Hussein, he will put a weapon of mass destruction on Israel and they will do what they think they have to do, and we have to avoid that.” [Bob Woodward, Plan of Attack (Simon & Schuster, 2004), p. 320.]
Quote:
Condoleeza Rice, who served as President Bush’s National Security Advisor, and later, as his Secretary of State, echoed the President’s outlook in a May 2003 interview, saying that the “security of Israel is the key to security of the world.” [ A. S. Lewin, "Israel’s Security is Key to Security of Rest of World," Jewish Press (Brooklyn, NY), May 14, 2003. Rice's interview with the Israeli daily Yediot Aharnonot is quoted.]
apparently they saw a threat!

Quote:
This [President Bush’s decision to attack was to help Israel] is so widely understood in Washington that US Senator Ernest Hollings was moved in May 2004 to acknowledge that the US invaded Iraq “to secure Israel,” and “everybody” knows it. He also identified three of the influential pro-Israel Jews in Washington who played an important role in prodding the US into war: Richard Perle, chair of the Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board; Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary; and Charles Krauthammer, columnist and author. [ Remarks by Ernest F. Hollings, May 20, 2004. Congressional Record – Senate, May 20, 2004, pages S5921-S5925. See also: M. Weber, "”Iraq Was Invaded to Secure Israel,” Says Senator Hollings..." (http://www.ihr.org/news/040716_hollings.shtml)]
and just where these folks at the time cat?

Quote:
Some months before the invasion, retired four-star US Army General and former NATO Supreme Allied Commander Wesley Clark acknowledged in an interview: “Those who favor this attack [by the US against Iraq] now will tell you candidly, and privately, that it is probably true that Saddam Hussein is no threat to the United States. But they are afraid at some point he might decide if he had a nuclear weapon to use it against Israel." [The Guardian (London), August 20, 2002.]
Quote:
Six months before the attack, President Bush met in the White House with eleven members of the US House of Representatives. While the “war against terrorism is going okay,” he told the lawmakers, the United States would soon have to deal with a greater danger: “The biggest threat, however, is Saddam Hussein and his weapons of mass destruction. He can blow up Israel and that would trigger an international conflict.” [Bob Woodward, Plan of Attack (Simon & Schuster, 2004), p. 186. See also p. 188]
no doubt if you or i were in charge this fiasco may have not happened, but then we were not. this is how the folks in charge saw it ~ deal with it ~ live with it ~ and it ain't humorous.
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:51 PM
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Calm, Still waiting to hear your thoughts on the info in this link:

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic8382.html
no doubt there is alot of oil in iraq, but let's wait until they do the actual geophysical surveys. better not to count your chickens before ther eggs have hatched

talk about speculation
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Old 12-02-2008, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Latherty View Post
I think the better question is:

Why did Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield pressure Franks to scale down the invasion force to 275,000 that could conquer Iraq in 45 days?

Does that sound like the kinda opponent that poses a genuine threat?
apparently you are ignorant of the Rumsfeld Doctrine. apparently the man wanted to prove a point, and it had nothing to do with "the threat". in the meantime if you want to ignore the facts;
  • motive ~ to secure the realm
  • intent ~ 'clean break' and letter to clinton
  • opportunity ~ at the center of storm calling for attack on iraq
be my guest
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