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Old 11-20-2008, 10:08 PM
catawba catawba is offline
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Icon19 So what about the Iraq SOFA?

"Chaos broke out in the Iraqi parliament for a second day Nov. 20 as deliberations over a security pact between the United States and Iraq continued. On Nov. 16, the Iraqi Cabinet passed the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), which sets Dec. 31, 2011, as a firm withdrawal date for U.S. forces in Iraq. The agreement must now pass a Nov. 24 parliament vote before the Iraqi president and his two deputies can officially ratify it.

If the SOFA passes, the United States will have a legally approved military presence in Iraq for at least the next three years to consolidate gains made thus far in the security situation, and to sustain a blocking force against neighboring Iran. While U.S. authority in Iraq will be substantially circumscribed under the revised draft of the SOFA, the pact sets in place a strategic partnership between Baghdad and Washington for the longer term, thereby serving U.S. interests in maintaining a foothold in the region and keeping the Iranians at bay.

Though the SOFA has made considerable progress in the past week, there are still plenty of obstacles that could throw the strategic agreement off track. The Iraqi government still has not decided whether the legislature will have to approve the SOFA by a simple majority or a two-thirds majority, or put it to a public referendum. The Iraqi politicians who oppose the agreement, most notably those loyal to Iraqi Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr, also have a strategy in play to stall the agreement. To this end, the al-Sadrites started up a ruckus in parliament Nov. 19 when they tried to drown out the second reading of the draft by yelling and even scuffling with lawmakers, resulting in one al-Sadrite getting tackled by the foreign minister’s security guard.

Besides making a big show of protest in parliament, the al-Sadrites are intentionally trying to delay the SOFA proceedings with the knowledge that many Iraqi parliamentarians will be leaving over the next few days for Saudi Arabia to perform the annual Hajj. If the al-Sadrites can stall deliberations on the agreement, they could deny the pro-SOFA parliamentary bloc a quorum to approve the deal."

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m48920

So Bush tries to rush through the SOFA to try to tie the hands of the new Administration. Since we are the ones paying for the war, why does the Bush-friendly regime get to vote on it and our Congress does not?
Is this even legal?

Last edited by catawba; 11-20-2008 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:40 PM
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Uncle Sam an't leaving Babylon anytime soon.

Not entirely.

Even the Wizard of Obama an't that PC-dumb.
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Old 11-20-2008, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by JW Frogen View Post
Uncle Sam an't leaving Babylon anytime soon.

Not entirely.

Even the Wizard of Obama an't that PC-dumb.
If wishes to have a shot at 2012, he will bring the troops home.
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Old 11-21-2008, 02:21 AM
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Lacking US Senate approval I see this as an agreement between Iraq and President Bush which is only effective so long as Bush is in the White House. President Bush has no Constitutional authority to obligate the United States or President Elect Obama to any agreement with a foreign nation without Senate approval.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catawba View Post
If wishes to have a shot at 2012, he will bring the troops home.
as much as i would like to see the troops come home, i will be very surprised to see it happen anytime soon ~ soon being 2012. obama has run into the two ton elephant in his living room.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
Lacking US Senate approval I see this as an agreement between Iraq and President Bush which is only effective so long as Bush is in the White House. President Bush has no Constitutional authority to obligate the United States or President Elect Obama to any agreement with a foreign nation without Senate approval.
Sure am glad to have you reconfirm that Shiva! It looks the SOFA could be stalled in the Iraqi Parliament, but that is not a sure thing.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catawba View Post
"Chaos broke out in the Iraqi parliament for a second day Nov. 20 as deliberations over a security pact between the United States and Iraq continued. On Nov. 16, the Iraqi Cabinet passed the Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA), which sets Dec. 31, 2011, as a firm withdrawal date for U.S. forces in Iraq. The agreement must now pass a Nov. 24 parliament vote before the Iraqi president and his two deputies can officially ratify it.

If the SOFA passes, the United States will have a legally approved military presence in Iraq for at least the next three years to consolidate gains made thus far in the security situation, and to sustain a blocking force against neighboring Iran. While U.S. authority in Iraq will be substantially circumscribed under the revised draft of the SOFA, the pact sets in place a strategic partnership between Baghdad and Washington for the longer term, thereby serving U.S. interests in maintaining a foothold in the region and keeping the Iranians at bay.

Though the SOFA has made considerable progress in the past week, there are still plenty of obstacles that could throw the strategic agreement off track. The Iraqi government still has not decided whether the legislature will have to approve the SOFA by a simple majority or a two-thirds majority, or put it to a public referendum. The Iraqi politicians who oppose the agreement, most notably those loyal to Iraqi Shiite leader Muqtada al-Sadr, also have a strategy in play to stall the agreement. To this end, the al-Sadrites started up a ruckus in parliament Nov. 19 when they tried to drown out the second reading of the draft by yelling and even scuffling with lawmakers, resulting in one al-Sadrite getting tackled by the foreign minister’s security guard.

Besides making a big show of protest in parliament, the al-Sadrites are intentionally trying to delay the SOFA proceedings with the knowledge that many Iraqi parliamentarians will be leaving over the next few days for Saudi Arabia to perform the annual Hajj. If the al-Sadrites can stall deliberations on the agreement, they could deny the pro-SOFA parliamentary bloc a quorum to approve the deal."

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m48920

So Bush tries to rush through the SOFA to try to tie the hands of the new Administration. Since we are the ones paying for the war, why does the Bush-friendly regime get to vote on it and our Congress does not?
Is this even legal?

It won't make much difference because Obama can always cancel that agreement and order US troops home even before 2011.

Remember, part of that agreement is to have all US troops withdraw from all cities and town by June 2009. ALl cities and town this is what bother's me, because all cities would then include Baghdad so if US troops are to withdraw from all cities and town where can they stay to wait for 2011 full withdrawal?

Probably, they will stay in air craft carriers, transport vessels, somewhere in the sea?
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by calmObserver View Post
as much as i would like to see the troops come home, i will be very surprised to see it happen anytime soon ~ soon being 2012. obama has run into the two ton elephant in his living room.

If he expects to get re-elected in 2012, he best be finding him some elephant tranquilizers and a crane!
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by WanRen View Post
It won't make much difference because Obama can always cancel that agreement and order US troops home even before 2011.

Remember, part of that agreement is to have all US troops withdraw from all cities and town by June 2009. ALl cities and town this is what bother's me, because all cities would then include Baghdad so if US troops are to withdraw from all cities and town where can they stay to wait for 2011 full withdrawal?

Probably, they will stay in air craft carriers, transport vessels, somewhere in the sea?
I think the idea is for out-of-town land bases.
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Old 11-21-2008, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catawba View Post

If he expects to get re-elected in 2012, he best be finding him some elephant tranquilizers and a crane!
I don't know, if he sticks with the pact as drawn up by the Iraqis our presence there will be sufficiently low-key to avoid any major publicity and we will be out by election time for the second term.

The public eye has moved from Iraq to domestic economic issues and this is what Obama will likely be judged on in 2012.

What he has to do is also find a way to back out of his stated commitments re Afghanistan, OBL and Pakistan. The contracted position in Iraq might give him sufficient cover to claim his hands were tied and the troops otherwise engaged.
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