...thats just ridiculous...

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Walk down the right back alley in Sin City and you can find anything...

Show your kids you love them by buying them the No. 7 brand.

headless pixie - The quote is "It's better that 100 guilty men go free than one innocent man suffer" - I am prepared to accept inflation impacts as a basis for your statement - and as a principle, has been traced back through English common law, Roman and Greek statute to the bible.

It is a quote which refers to the suffering of innocent and not the punishment of the guilty. Thus to use it as a defence against capital punishment is inappropriate even by those who feel the "absolute" nature of execution automatically implies such a risk.

Although I have lived most of my life in countries where the death penalty has been rescinced to a maximum of life imprisonment, I do sincerely belief the ultimate sanction should be available for killers and most particularly for second offence drug dealers (who show a more callous disregard for human life than the average domestic violence killer who, it could be argued, act out of emotion). Why drug dealers - because someone who has trafficked in death, been caught and imprisoned and then returned to deal some more has, in my humble opinion, shown total disregard for his/her fellows and the suffering of the people they encourage into addiction. They promote and exploit human weakness and enslave people to the drugs they deal in - in so doing diminishing the quality, expectancy and social contribution (turning to negative contribution through crime to feed their habit) of those they addict.

I can, imagine, in the corner of my mind, the perpetrator of a domestic killing would suffer in a life sentence the remorse and guilty of his crime and may, ultimately, qualify for parole through personal reform. There is never ever, any remorse or guilt from drug dealers who see their only "crime" as getting caught or blaming their plight on family background, poor schooling, social disadvantage and every other platitude, excuse and cop out which avoids and absolves them of personal responsibility.

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Free Speech measures the idiot by what he says
Censorship measures the idiot as equal with the Sage.

I'm going to wonder of the subject slightly here.

I'm against imprisoning someone for the rest of their life, even for the most extreme crimes. I believe they should be mentally monitored throughout their imprisonment and if deemed fit to be released into society should be. I also believe in rehab for everyone and when people tell me theres better things to spend money on i tell them that crime, education and health are the 3 most important things and that rehab for criminals surely comes under crime.

I believe a person can change and if they do they deserve to be a respected member of society, which is why i don't believe in criminal records neither. If people have been released then they should not be discriminated against as they are no longer a criminal. They deserve the same opportunities as everyone else.

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What's this i hear bed? Word has it you and Pam are sleeping together.

I am totally against death penalty and this sums up pretty well why:
http://www.justicedenied.org/executed.htm

The justice system isn't and probably will not ever be perfect. By killing someone you rob yourself of any possibility of correcting what later may be proven to be a mistake. It is terrible if an innocent person spends many years in prison but this is far better if they are killed. An innocent person can be released from prison an compensation can be paid but you cannot amend for a life taken. This is why death penalty is always wrong and have no place in a modern justice system.

Do not believe that modern forensic techniques like DNA scanning is a holy grail of certaincy, they are not. DNA evidence can prove innocence far more often then they can prove guilt and often there are no such evidence available. The same is true for fingerprints, to evan an higher degree. Fingerprint evidence are often of a terribly low quality, mostly fragments and so they often also end up being more useful to prove innocence then guilt.

Then we have the problem with those that are guilty but may not deserve to die for it anyway. I talk about people that belong more in a psychiatric institution then in prison. The tendency of sending mentally ill people to prison and heaven forbid, death row is a disgrace. These people need to be treated for their illness, not punished. Their ailment that made them commit crimes may one day be cured, just keep them safe until the doctors finds out how. We do not have death penalty where I live but other then that we have the same problem here. Inmates in our prisons are actually complaining about new arrivals that should have been sent to mental hospital for treatment rather then locked up with no access to treatment.[/url]

I can't imagine how you can argue for the death penalty except that it satisfies revenge and blood-lust. Now, are those two things that we want to enshrine in the law? Yeah, I know that it prevents killers from killing again, but how many people who have recieved life sentences (no parole) escape?

We know that as it's set up, the death penalty serves no other purpose. It's expensive, it doesn't deter criminal behavior, it's irreversable, and in many cases it's inhumane. Yeah, inhumane. Those of you who haven't done much research on the subject should check up on some of the things that have happened in death chambers since the Furman decision was reversed. There has been two or three electrocutions that haven't gone too well, there were two trips to the gas chamber that turned messy, and there have been countless lethal injections that actually are nowhere near as anticeptic as we believe. For what? Punishment?

Look, so many people who are against the death penalty feel sorry for the criminal. Not me. I think that criminals should suffer, but I think that it should be reasonable. I think that putting someone in a cell by themselves for several years and making them realize everyday that they will be shaved, diapered, and strapped to a chair or gurney to die (maybe painfully) is too much.

I think with a 30 year minimum sentence with possibility of no parole is a punishment that could allow for someone to turn around. We assume that one good person has lost their life. I think it might be possible that we may be able to fix a bad life. Wouldn't work all the time, but it may work some of the time. If not, we can still do plenty to punish over the course of decades.

Finally, I think that if we are going to keep capital punishment, executions need to be public, and the public should be strongly encouraged to watch since it is they that are responsible for the sentence that is being imposed.

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Any man who can render himself unconscious with a pretzel isn't smart enough to lead the free world.

This is an issue I go back and forth on. There are cases that I hear about that are so heinous, I feel that they deserve something worse than death. But other times I think that the only thing the daeth penalty achieves is to make us feel better about the situation. Maybe I will figure it out someday.

-Demosthenes

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

Does anyone have stats on whether or not the death penalty actually deters people from committing murder?

-Demosthenes

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

I think the process needs to be reformed but to abolish it completely is a mistake. The criminal process and sentencing is a very tricky conundrum.

For example, the three strikes law here in California. For those unfamiliar with it, I give you the highlights:

Three Strikes Law is basically a law that was enacted, to reduce the number of repeat serious offenders, on the streets. It provides that anyone convicted of a third "serious felony" is sentenced to 25 years to life. Now most people would find that this is a good law. However, ask the cop that is chasing down a 2 time car thief that has nothing to lose by killing the cop that is chasing him. So on paper and on it's merits it appears to be good and in spirit it is a good law, but in reality it can lead to more serious, and unintended results.

So, I think that while the death penalty is certainly not a perfect solution, with technology and reforms, I think that it serves a very useful purpose. I don't understand why the tax payers should spend, on average, $36,000 a year to keep a convicted murderer alive in prison for the rest of his life. If there is inconclusive evidence, then put them in prison. However, if there clear and discernible evidence that the convicted person committed the crime that they were convicted of then I propose to carry out the sentence.

Some Death Penalty Stats:

-10 of the 12 states without capital punishment have homicide rates below the national average, Federal Bureau of Investigation data shows, while half the states with the death penalty have homicide rates above the national average

-In a state-by- state analysis, The Times found that during the last 20 years, the homicide rate in states with the death penalty has been 48 percent to 101 percent higher than in states without the death penalty.

-To keep an inmate in a high security prison for 40 years costs just under $1,000,000. Executions commonly cost three to seven times that amount, mostly for the two-trial, two-attorney phase which cannot be eliminated even with the recent weakening of habeas corpus protections.

-Death penalty cases also clog the courts. The California Supreme Court spends more than half its time reviewing death penalty cases.11 The Florida Supreme Court spends about 80 percent of its time on capital punishment cases.12

-By 1988, Florida had spent $57.2 million on 10 executions, yet had to release 3,000 prisoners early because of a $45 million budget cut. Similarly, although Texas spent $183.2 million for six years on the death penalty, the state can only afford to hold the rest of its prisoners for 20 percent of their time.

I'm not screaming racism with the following but I did find them interesting:

-Because of the unfettered discretion given to prosecutors, judges, juries and governors, minorities are far more likely to be executed than whites. Fifty-three percent of the people executed between 1930 and 1990 were black, even though blacks make up only 12 percent of the population.17

A convicted murderer is also more likely to be executed if his or her victim was white. About 50 percent of American murder victims since 1977 have been black.18 Yet 82 percent of all capital cases involved white victims.19

Since 1976, nationally 85 executions were carried out involving black defendants and white victims, while only 4 white defendants have been executed for killing black victims


-Demosthenes

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"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

What a thread, and just the one i was looking for. My view is not one that i am seeing, and i have been actively looking. I have never been able to get myself 100% on either side of this issue. I guess i figured it would never be a big deal in my life......and it probably could have stayed that way, until about 2 years ago, a nephew of mine (through marriage) killed a 6 year old girl. The family of the girl was a family friend, one i knew slightly, but now i think of every single day.

THe case will go to trial this jan. I had contacted the P.A. s office to ask them what i could do because i have a suspicion that the DA is going to use the "he had a bad childhood" story, which i know to be false.

Oddly enough, this has tilted me more toward death penalty than against. Mainly now i just want the family of the little girl to feel like justice is served. IF death penalty is what can help them, then i support that. If they want him to remain in prison and remember his horrible act everyday. then that is good with me. I am going to stay on the DA's back to make sure that he at LEAST receives life in prison (not 20 years, my kids will still be very young when he gets out). No tv, no video games.

RIght now i have to have faith that the system will work. ITs very hard to remember this when i see stories all the time about murderers getting 20 years. Once you take a life, the rest of your natural life cannot just go on as before. I do not believe murderers can be rehabilitated. I'm hoping there is a god that sorts this all out once we leave this life.

ANy input here would be greatly appreciated. Like i said, i am not finding many people in my boat, which surely there must be, there are so many murders in a day, and all those people have families. ANd there must be some like me who are not so willing to let this slide just because it was a family member.