In a recent publication of U.S. News and World Report, David Gergen wrote an editorial titled "An Unfair Attack". In the article he issues a rebuttal to an article written by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walttitles {"The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy"}. Gergen states the following: "In essence, their 82-page piece argues that U.S. policy in the Middle East has been hijacked by a pro-Israel "Lobby." "The core of the Lobby," they say, "is comprised of American Jews who make a significant effort in their daily lives to bend U.S. foreign policy so that it advances Israel's interests." As a result, "the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location. Evidently no thought was given to the long term effects of creating such a state in the middle of so many Arab countries. It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their. The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships. This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well. Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry.

As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries. It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures. Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade. Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen." Still further, while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel. Mearsheimer and Walttitles are right and therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel. Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world.

What a despicable lie:

http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/The_Talmud

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"I am a Tory Anarchist. I should like every one to go about doing just as he pleased- short of altering any of the things to which I have grown accustomed." (Max Beerbohm)

The fact that this kind of ignorance persists is the reason Israel exists today. Jews should never trust our fate to such ludacris beliefes. Shall we start ...


"the United States has a terrorism problem in good part because it is so closely allied with Israel." I agree with Mearsheimer and Walttitles.

Of course you do !! So the root of Muslem terrorism is closely affiliated with Israel. Explain the Sudan genocide going on right now. Please explain the night club explosions in Bali. Please explain the kids being slaughtered in the school in Southern Russia. Nothing to do with Israel. Israel is a convenient excuse for Islamic emperialism. Islam has a twisted ego that needs to be put in check, but it's sooo much easier to blame the Jews.


"Back in 1948 when the Jewish state of Israel was created, the United States and Britain agreed to allow it to exist in its present place of location"

Ever consider that they let it exist in this area because THAT'S WHERE THE JEWS WHERE ?! Ever consider that there have always always been Jews in Israel ?! Ever consider that the area was so poorly populated that the Brits had to import arab workers for road crews and construction projects ?! The Brits supported the Arabs .. just so you understand. The UN vote was merely a recognition of the de-facto State that had rissen. And when the Arab States attacked in 48, did Britain, the US, or the UN come to the Jewish State's aid ... HECK NO !! So take your "we let you exist" crap and shove it. You didn't let me anything !!!


"It would have been wiser to use this land to create a place where all three major religions could visit to practice their faiths but not be allowed to reside their"

This is the 3rd most religious site for Islam. Muslems in Jerusalem face West toward Mecca when praying .. it's that insignificant. Muhamed NEVER set foot in Israel. It's only holy for Christians because Jesus was, after all, JEWISH. So my people have been praying to be allowed to return home for literally millenia, but to appease the Muslim ego you want to sell me out. Understand that the Muslims barred Jews from visiting our holiest sites for years. Do you realize that Islam built the golden dome on the site of Judaism's holiest place to show who's in charge. The Al Aqsa mosque .. the grey dome about 200 yards away is actually the holy place. So maybe you should focus on saving Budahs that are older then Muhamed from being blown up in Islamic fervor .. oops too late. Maybe you should call Mesopotamia an international zone as well since it's the birthplace of modern civilization. But nope .. you want to focus solely on the Jews. Ask Chamberlin about appeasement sometime !!!


"The State of Israel should have been established anywhere but the Middle East. Consequently, the United States has obligated itself to support a so-called democratic Jewish state against potential threats from the Arab monarchial dictatorships."

What part of return to Zion do you not get ?!? Not return to Liberia ... Not return to Antarctica ... Return to Zion !!! Jews have always lived here.
And as for the US obligating itself .. It didn't even assist in 1948 when the Arab armies attacked. In fact, it assisted with the arms embargo against Israel. Maybe you should realize that most Americans recognize that Arab pride is just way way way out of control. Something like 4 out of 5 Americans support Israel period. The US didn't obligate themselves into anything. The US supports a lot of countries, including many Arab ones, finacially, but you only focus on Israel .. the Jews.


"This has indeed opened the door to undue influence from the "Jewish lobby" not only on U.S. policy in the Middle East but also on domestic policy as well"

US dependency on oil hasn't done more so ?!? The US supports the family of Saud for oil, and Osama has said that the US support of the Suadi ruling family is one of the top reasons why the US was attacked. Yet we still prop the Saudi dictatorship. I don't hear you calling for an end to that even though it's a direct cause of Islamic terrorism. Why is that Joe ?!? Because the Saudis aren't Jews !! Selling out the Jews is so much easier. You, Joe, are the reason Israel exists.


"Few could doubt the negative influence they have on the media and the entertainment industry."

I doubt it. What are you babling about Joe ?!? Please explain !! Also please explain how Al Jazeera is a positive influence with regards to US foreign policy. As for entertainment .. Does this have something to do with Sammy D Jr ?! What a mench !!


"As for negative stereotypes, the Jews have been known to create their own. Everything from their materialistic money mongering to their history of being forcefully removed from so many countries"

So the church does not allow Jews to own land and does not allow Christians to lend at interest (usuary). This forces some Jews (many lived in poverty conditions .. see Fidler on da Roof) into banking. This was absolutely esential for Europe. You are welcome. Eventually the Medicis get into this line, but you don't here a peep about them other than the fact that they supported the arts. So when people owed the Jews (including the State) they would often just renig, with the blessing of the Church, and boot (or worse) the Jewish community. YOU BLAME ME FOR WHAT YOU CREATE !! You are less than insightful (gotta watch your language on these posts nowadays) Joe. You are downright ignorant or bigoted .. or both.


"It always seems very ironic that the Jews continue to decry themselves as the only victims of a holocaust where in fact their own bible describes in detail how they massacred many nations and cultures"

I'm Jewish and I've never heard anyone say that Jews where the ONLY victims of the holocaust. Yad Vashem, the holocaust museum in Jerusalem, makes no such claims either. It did, however, wipe out over a third of the World's Jewery in a span of a few years. That doesn't bother you I'm certain since it was, after all, just the Jews !! As for the Bible, the only people that where not offered peace was Amalek if I recall something from 3,000 years ago correctly. So are you saying that I'm reaping what the tribes did 3,000 years ago ?!?
I am glad that you recognize that the Jews where here efore Muhamed was an itch in his dad's loincloth. Just remember that !!!


"Some historians believe it was their investment money that helped sponsor the African slave trade"

Proof ?!? Was it just their money ?!? Did they actively participate ?!? Columbus devestated Hispanola for slavery !! Islam still practices slavery fairly openly !! But lets focus on the Jews !! Those in glass houses bro.


"Even their own Talmud states that "Jesus is in hell and is being punished by being boiled in semen."

I've studied the Talmud and I have no idea what you are talking about. More importantly .. so what. So Jews don't deserve to live cuz they insult your beliefs. Get over yourself !! Jews don't believe that Jesus is the son of God. For this crime Christians have been punishing and killing us for close to 2,000 years. You should be begging MY forgiveness. Jesus, would certainly not approve of behavior in his name.


"while the Jews advocate diversity in the United States, only those born into Jewish families may attain citizenship in Israel"

Funny. Saudis put on commercials in the US stating what friends they are to the US and build Wahabi mosques all over the place, yet try to build a church, much less a synagogue, in the Kingdom of Saud. ISRAEL IS A JEWISH STATE. The end. Deal with it !! At least you are free to practice any religion freely here. A lot more diverse that the lands that you advocate for their peaceful living until those darned Jews, who have always been here, came around. You are a silly silly boy Joe.


"therefore the United States should withdraw from its support of Israel"

And from the Saudis. And Egypt. And leave Iraq cold turkey since there is a lot of Muslim hostility over this pet project that has cost more in a year than Israel has cost the US all together even with crazy interest figures etc. But yes ... sell out the Jews even though the US population sides with it 4-1 any day of the week. Get this .. the US is not fooled for a second by this retarded logic. The US wouldn't be attacked if you just stop supporting what you agree with ... EXTORTION !!! APPEASEMENT !!! Weak Joe .. just plain ignorantly weak !!


"Perhaps then will the so-called chosen people wisen up and learn to get along peacefully with the rest of the world"

This one is the kicker. Not just Israel, but "the chosen people", all Jews, need to get along with the rest of the World. We need to learn not to get kicked out of countries. We need to learn to stop bringing upon ourselves the gas chambers and crematoriums. We need to learn never to strive for ourselves. To live in perpertual meekness. Sorry dude .. no can do. Take your meek Jew = good Jew ideas and go back about 150 years. Nowadays that would get you a good cross to the teeth around here. Turning other cheek days are over. I have every right to live in my homeland and to not feel a threat to my life. If the backass, religious totalitarian regimes in the area, that you advocate as peaceful despite the fact that when not trying to kill me are busy killing and robbing each other, can't deal with it, I suggest they try harder cuz we ain't going nowhere.


To sum it up for you nice n easy Joe, so that even you can understand ... SHOVE IT !! It is because of YOU, Joe, that Israel exists. Your Jew despising ass. I don't really care about your opinion because I depend on me and my brothers. I defend myself. AM YISRAEL CHAI !!

Though I agree with you mostly, Janglo, especially over Joe up there, there is one thing I don't quite get. Why is it that so many Jews in this day and age feel that a country surrounded by a lot of others who claim and want the territory and are unwilling to compromise is somehow a better defense for the people than living in a multicultural country where only a moronic minority hates Jews?
The likelihood of another Holocaust in America or Europe is slim to none. We'd never allow another thing like that to happen, at least not due to race and ethnicity. The antisemites and skinheads and racists here are a minority that most of us find either to be a joke or a nuisance.
Israel on the other hand faces constant threat because the dispute is more over land than over any ideology. When Hitler took power, the ideology he spewed was only used as a justification for his BS solution to real economic problems. He blamed a minority group that was doing well, a tactic that still occurs in the third world occasionally. But it is not likely that the West will fall for that load again. I think the share of antisemites this site has tends to distort the view of the US. We don't have that many skinheads. And we don't like the skinheads.
Now I'm not saying it's wrong to be patriotic for Israel any more than I'd say its wrong for the US, England, or Palestine. I'm for a peaceful resolution between Israel and its Arab neighbors and Persian adversaries and its continued existence as a state.
I just don't see how it is that one can say Israel is a better safeguard than the modern West. I'd be afraid to be a Jew in Israel much more than to be a Jew in New York. I think the Holocaust has taught us a lesson. People like Joe up there and SHambo are just a relic of a past age.

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That information is classified and to be given only on a need-to-know basis...

And I do not need to know.

Yeah because farce can "read" hebrew. . . oh yeah he doesn't. . . . .

"I once experienced this myself. [63] Three learned Jews came to me, hoping to discover a new Jew in me because we were beginning to read Hebrew here in Wittenberg, and remarking that matters would soon improve since we Christians were starting to read their books. When I debated with them, they gave me their glosses, as they usually do. But when I forced them back to the text, they soon fled from it, saying that they were obliged to believe their rabbis as we do the pope and the doctors, etc. I took pity on them and give them a letter of recommendation to the authorities, asking that for Christ's sake they let them freely go their way. But later, I found out that they called Christ a tola, that is, a hanged highwayman. Therefore I do not wish to have anything more to do with any Jew. As St. Paul says, they are consigned to wrath; the more one tries to help them the baser and more stubborn they become. Leave them to their own devices.

We Christians, however, can greatly strengthen our faith with this statement of Jacob, assuring us that Christ is now present and that he has been present for almost fifteen hundred years — but not, as the devil jeers, as a beggar in Rome; rather, as a ruling Messiah. If this were not so, then God's word and promise would be a lie. If the Jews would only let Holy Scripture be God's word, they would also have to admit that there has been a Messiah since the time of Herod (no matter where), rather than awaiting another. But before doing this, they will rather tear and pervert Scripture until it is no longer Scripture. And this is in fact their situation: They have neither Messiah nor Scripture, just as Isaiah 28 prophesied of them."

Luther's Works: The Christian In Society IV. Vol 47. American Edition. Edited by Franklin Sherman. (Philadelphia: 1981) ISBN: 0-8006-0347-8. page191-192

I agree to a large extent with you Java. It would be much easier to pack up shop and move to the US. Not so sure how much I'd like Europe quite frankly. The issue at hand is that every year, since we where exiled, we say next year we'll be in Jerusalem. It has been the national dream for 2+ millenia now. We are not, for a second, intimidated by the hatred of the Muslems towards us. This hatred has been especially directed towards Jews because the Jewish tribes of Arabia refused to accept Muhamed as a prophet. So this hatred towards us is really nothing new. 30+ Arab countries but the Jews can't have 1. It's high time Islam put their egos in check. So I put up my wall and live in peace with my people and those that come in peace. You are 100% correct though, a prosperous 1st World country in the middle of this area is bound to attract negative attention. I grit, bear it, and enjoy life more for it. The US has it's dreams and we've got ours. This is where it all started. This is where we belong. I know it's hard to understand in the 21st century, but it's literally millenia old.

Understand also that we want a Jewish country with a Jewish government. When terrorist hijacked the Air France flight and diverted it to Entebe, it was Israel that went in and rescude the Jews. If we where all in the US nobody would have done that. So there is some amount of "Jewish land for the protection of Jews the World over" idea as well. The Jews of France are moving here now for examle becasue France is becoming unbearable. This is a sanctuary. I know it sounds strange, but it is. Walk down the street and people that you've never met before call you brother .. and mean it. Trust me .. this is where Jews belong .. and this is from a guy that splits his time between Ohio & Jerusalem.

PS. Jerusalem is safer.

Ohh Shami. I can find you these type of quotes .. and worse .. all day. You think that a Christian putting down Jews is going to impress me. Let me impress this upon you. I don't believe that Jesus was the son of God. OK ?? Deal with it. In terms you can understand .. instead of going through a middleman, I go to the manufacturer. I like wholesale and you like retail. I'm cool with your deal, but for some reason you can't deal with mine. Tough cookies.

"If the Jews would only let Holy Scripture be God's word, they would also have to admit that there has been a Messiah since the time of Herod (no matter where), rather than awaiting another"

I don't believe in the New Testament and as Jesus is mentioned nowhere in the Old Testament, I think that this guy is a moron. Messiah, by the way, just means annointed, like kings where annointed. It has nothing to do with salvation. Your understanding of scripture is sorely lacking. Why would I "have to" admit that there has been a "messiah" again ?!? Oh that's right .. because he's Christian and obviously the Jews are wrong for not believing in Christ. So the scriputes where written by Jesus or God (one n the same I would imagine) and they say that Jesus is Lord therefore the scriputes must be right. Very much a catch 22. Regardless. I accept the fact that you want to follow the very nice teachings of a very nice man and kill people in his name, but you can't accept that I don't accept him as the son of God. You are ridiculous.

I have a recommendation for the moderators.

Create an "Isreal" forum.

Then just dump all this boring crap in it when someone posts it.

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I was banned from godlike productions(over 400 times)... and loved it.

"I haven't made you angry, have I?" -Malcolm Reynolds

Could not agree more. Will always defend my right to be here, but have never started a thread regarding it.

If it only were so easy.

I thought of replying, but decided that would just be a waste of my time.