Thread: Resolution 242; What it REALLY means

well done klipkap - <<<Off-topic>>>
<<<Personal Attacks Removed>>>

Regards
Foolosophy
Premier Genius and All round nice guy that speaks the truth

Originally Posted by i.beletesri

If you would look into another past/recent string just a few down the page: "Who lived there when".. and see post #4 It rather defeats everything you had to say

Wrong Beletesri. It says nothing - Abu just makes personal attacks. On two or three of the Zionist Myth threads Ashley ate Abu for breakfast, because she DID use facts. Poor Abu tried to extrapolate population statistics for Jerusalem as if they applied to the entire disputed Levant region. She shot him down sooooooo badly.

Originally Posted by i.beletesri

Further, many of the Arabs now called 'Palestinians' (you gotta love these new made up names for arabs from Egypt to Iraq) were as new or NewER than the Jewish residents- having FOLLOWED in the zionist settlers for 50+ years) for the economic opportunity they created.

Well done Beletesri - you have confirmed the cardinal rule of Zionist Myths. No matter how thoroughly they are debunked, they pop up a short while later as if they are the pure truth. What you stated above is Zionist Myth number 2. Originally I paraphrased this Myth by collating comments from various Zionist web sites as:

QUOTE Zionist Myth 2: The formation of the State of Israel did not displace Palestinian people. The vast majority of the Palestinians in the southern Levant arrived there by immigration from surrounding areas about a century ago, following the hard-working Zionists. When Israel was formed they were only required to go back to whence they came from. UNQUOTE

I hope that you will agree that this says pretty much what you do just using different words.

Unfortunately the Myth 2 thread has been corrupted. Here is what remains of it, thankfully retaining the core discussions:
http://www.politicalforum.com/middle...th-no-2-a.html

Feel free to re-open the case. I still have the Excel spreadsheet with the various data sets for the various population groups. The Joan Peters debate again, anyone?

Originally Posted by klipkap

Wrong Beletesri. It says nothing - Abu just makes personal attacks. On two or three of the Zionist Myth threads Ashley ate Abu for breakfast, because she DID use facts. Poor Abu tried to extrapolate population statistics for Jerusalem as if they applied to the entire disputed Levant region. She shot him down sooooooo badly.

Wrong again kipklap.
Actually abu gives population Data back to 1838.. when Jews were already the Largest constituent of the population in place like Jerusalem (Safed, etc).

And states the reason for the post is not to say Jews were a majority in the Mandate or lesser palestine (what is now 'palestine' and Israel), but that Jews were in good enough number to justify "the tiny sliver of the Ottoman empire they got".
And I referred to it in that light as to these so-called/kip-kalled "annexations" to show the Jews indeed had cause for a state.

Nor could or did you rebut Most else I said-- just Leaving it out and selectively 'replying'.

Well done Beletesri - you have confirmed the cardinal rule of Zionist Myths. No matter how thoroughly they are debunked, they pop up a short while later as if they are the pure truth. What you stated above is Zionist Myth number 2. Originally I paraphrased this Myth by collating comments from various Zionist web sites as:

QUOTE Zionist Myth 2: The formation of the State of Israel did not displace Palestinian people. The vast majority of the Palestinians in the southern Levant arrived there by immigration from surrounding areas about a century ago, following the hard-working Zionists. When Israel was formed they were only required to go back to whence they came from. UNQUOTE

I hope that you will agree that this says pretty much what you do just using different words.

Unfortunately the Myth 2 thread has been corrupted. Here is what remains of it, thankfully retaining the core discussions:
http://www.politicalforum.com/middle...th-no-2-a.html

Feel free to re-open the case. I still have the Excel spreadsheet with the various data sets for the various population groups. The Joan Peters debate again, anyone?

"Re-open" what case.
You didn't make any. LOL
Once again we have kilpklap referring/declaring SO-CALLED 'Myths', when he has no proof they are myths.. Referring us only to his own previous EMPTY one-sentence strings declaring they are myths.
That's not even circular reasoning- that's Double-nothing reasoning.

Beletesri, you have now twice accused me of having invented Myth 2, namely that one of the main Zionist mantras is that the Palestinians followed the Jews into the disputed southern Levant and cannot therefore claim to have been displaced when the State of Israel was created.

I dont like it when people accuse me of dishonest debate, so I am now throwing down the gauntlet to you. Tell me and the readers of this section of the forum that this is NOT a regular theme in Zionist publications and web sites, and that I have invented it.

Or, if on the other hand, your contention is that indeed such Zionist sources DO frequently make this claim, but that it is NOT a myth, but is the plain truth, then start to show your evidence, instead of vacantly implying that I am lying. I will naturally respond.

So go for it. It it a Zionist mantra or not, and if so, what is your evidence that it is true?

Time to back up your insults.

Originally Posted by klipkap

Beletesri, you have now twice accused me of having invented Myth 2, namely that one of the main Zionist mantras is that the Palestinians followed the Jews into the disputed southern Levant and cannot therefore claim to have been displaced when the State of Israel was created.

I dont like it when people accuse me of dishonest debate, so I am now throwing down the gauntlet to you. Tell me and the readers of this section of the forum that this is NOT a regular theme in Zionist publications and web sites, and that I have invented it.

Or, if on the other hand, your contention is that indeed such Zionist sources DO frequently make this claim, but that it is NOT a myth, but is the plain truth, then start to show your evidence, instead of vacantly implying that I am lying. I will naturally respond.

So go for it. It it a Zionist mantra or not, and if so, what is your evidence that it is true?

Time to back up your insults.

No insults in any posts above..tho you feel such from the thrashing with facts.

Not how Klipkap tries to Slide from the point we were talking about.. the Validity of the creation of Israel.
Now lost by him.
That creation was as/or more valid of any of the former Ottoman lands.
and he has tried to morph it into what? Some vague claimed 'Myth'.
I keep posting hard facts- he wants to push them all into some 'myth' bucket rather than debate any I have given.

The fact is some Arabs were there, some/many certainly followed the Zionists in..
The Population of Both, especially Arabs, increased dramatically (those you claim were displaced!)
But I don't see "Displacement" of any significance (there's always a little in statecraft as there was throughout the former Ottoman lands), aside from the Displacement that was a Result of the Arab-Started 1948 War, NOT the creation/partition of Israel/Palestine.

Another Truth Klipkap can't make a myth.

"I do not want to impugn anybody but only to help the refugees. The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the action of the Arab States in opposing Partition and the Jewish State. The Arab States agreed upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem,

- Emil Ghoury, Secretary of the Arab Higher Committee, the official leadership of the Palestinian Arabs, in the Beirut newspaper, Daily Telegraph, September 6, 1948

"Taken", "Bought", "annexed", "Sovereignty"... all self-contradicted and/or Lost by klipkap on this page alone!.. now on to... "Displaced". And deluded/obsessive reference to 'Myths'.

LOL

Originally Posted by klipkap

Beletesri, you have now twice accused me of having invented Myth 2, namely that one of the main Zionist mantras is that the Palestinians followed the Jews into the disputed southern Levant and cannot therefore claim to have been displaced when the State of Israel was created.

I dont like it when people accuse me of dishonest debate, so I am now throwing down the gauntlet to you. Tell me and the readers of this section of the forum that this is NOT a regular theme in Zionist publications and web sites, and that I have invented it.

Or, if on the other hand, your contention is that indeed such Zionist sources DO frequently make this claim, but that it is NOT a myth, but is the plain truth, then start to show your evidence, instead of vacantly implying that I am lying. I will naturally respond.

So go for it. It it a Zionist mantra or not, and if so, what is your evidence that it is true?

Time to back up your insults.

I would think anybody who had any sort of intuitive reasoning ability would understand that economic development in one area acts as a magnet to those who who live nearby. Our country draws those from Mexico, doesn't it?

It shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that Jewish economic development attracted people into the area. Now, that doesn't mean there were no people already there, but OF COURSE people flowed to a potential source of income, and some of them came into the area from outside. They always do.

beletersi has been exposed by a simple argumentative technique know as "TRUTH dissemination"

WELL DONE KLIPKAP! -

<<<Off-topic, Personal Attacks, Trolling>>>

Keep up the great work klipkap - I will be putting your name forward for the annual awards in the Hague.

Regards
Foolosophy
International Truth Institute

If there's anything you'd like to debate here in the Middle East section - instead of trolling.. please say so.

Any further OFF topic posts will be reported and I will no longer respond.

Originally Posted by i.beletesri

.....aside from the Displacement that was a Result of the Arab-Started 1948 War, NOT the creation/partition of Israel/Palestine.

Another Truth Klipkap can't make a myth.

I will reply more fully later since I am busy today. But so as not to let the case of the Zionist Myths cool, let's briefly address exactly what you wrote above -- EXACTLY.

Your words reflect a concept often occurring mantra-like in the Zionist publications. Firstly, can we agree on that so that I am not accused of having made up the words that you used or the very similar ones in numerous Zionist sources. OK - "the Displacement of the ancestral owners of the land which is now Israel was the result of the Arab-Israeli war, not the creation of the State of Israel. Fair enough? A very common Zionist point of view?

If it can be disproved, would it be acceptable to call it Zionist Myth number 9?

I am assuming the the foregoing is fair and that we can get on with debating the validity of your statement - OK?

I want to talk facts.
The last page was full of debate, you lost, about the justification for the Jews getting a small state/Israel.

Full of you trying to Assign Vague 'Myths', while not being able to debate me directly on any facts.
Full of Only "Oh that sounds LIKE zionist myth #x", but never even proving 'x' Was a myth except by reference to.. your OWN previous Empty posts! Not that any was relevant to the points I was making anyway.

You attempt to vaguely characterize what I write -and you're left with now only One Partial quote from a whole page of Hard Facts!
Have you conceded Everything I wrote except displacement mostly from the 1948 War? (and the inevitable smaller ones from and "statecraft" you left off)