Originally Posted by klipkap";p=&quot

Anywhere else in the world?? Zionist blinkers Moishe. Not true - not at all - let me remind you.

Firstly the premise was not for what is now Israel. Remember the Peters' fatal flaw in statistical methodology?

Secondly, forget comparisons with Asia. They are irrelevant compared to comparisons with population growths for the same period with Lebanon, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, etc. These are infinitely more pertinent and show comparable levels of growth (see quote below).

So can I add another Zionist myth? It goes like this:
"Population growths pre-1948, in what is now Palestine, were higher than for those countries from which the Palestinian Arabs were meant to have emigrated to the "Holy Land". Or if you want irrelevant stats, higher than for those of Asia."

You see the problem don't you Moishe. If the Palestinians were meant to have left these countries to follow the Zionists, then the neighbouring countries' populations should have fallen.

Palestinian ladies have lots of babies Moishe. I have drawn your attention to this fact on two previous occasions, but you prefer your Zionist mantra.

But the Knesset is very well aware of this fact Moishe. They are only too worried that the percentage of Palestinians in Israel is creeping up every year and threatening Rabin's sacred proportion of 20%. These ladies have lots of babies Moishe.

Originally Posted by klipkap";p=&quot

Why on earth would I want to compare Palestinian growth with those countries? They are irrelevant compared to using the countries in the vicinity that DID NOT EXPERIENCE Zionist settlement. Since when did "your countries" experience Zionist colonisation, or even Zionist immigration on a comparable scale in the early part of the 2oth century?

And even if I were to compare territories in the Middle East with those in your list, and were to realise that the population of the Middle East was growing at a faster rate, how would this support your thesis that "Palestinians"were provided with job opportunities by the Zionist settlers and this is the reason for Palestinian growth. Because it certainly won't explain the very similar growths in the neighbouring countries.

Originally Posted by ashleykennedy";p=&quot

From Klipkaps posting it maybe thought that Palestinians were flocking to Cis Jordan as the Jewish farms were extremely potent, and awash with modern technology. So how come during the period of 1922 to 1930 there was an exodus of Palestinians?

Immigration into Palestine

Jew Christian Muslim
Year Immi Emig Immi Emig Immi Emig Total
1923 7,421 3466 402 713 168 768 7991
1924 12,856 507 510 353 187 251 13,553
1925 33,801 2151 741 1201 96 748 34,641
1926 13,081 7965 611 1505 218 559 13,910
1927 2,713 5071 758 813 124 1094 3595
1928 2178 2168 710 547 198 407 3086
1929 5249 1746 1117 792 200 297 6566
1930 2568 739 480 166 60 161 3108
Total 81,283 23457 5370 6198 1267 4387 87920
Net 57826 -798 -3120
Percentage 92.5% 6.1% 1.4% 100%

From Appendix 22 to
PALESTINE.
Report on
Immigration, Land Settlement
and Development.
By
SIR JOHN HOPE SIMPSON, C.I.E.
1930
Presented by the Secretary of State for the Colonies to
Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
October, 1930

http://domino.un.org/pdfs/appendices.pdf

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/e3ed8720f8707c9385256d19004f057c!OpenDocument

The fellah as a cultivator.The fellah is neither lazy nor unintelligent. He is a competent and capable agriculturist, and there is little doubt that were he to be given the chance of learning better methods, and the capital, which is a necessary preliminary to their employment, he would rapidly improve his position. Meanwhile, however, the income which he can procure from his inadequate farm is insufficient to maintain him in a decent standard of comfort and leaves no margin whatever for improvements.

Expenditure by KerenKayemeth and KerenHayesod.The amounts spent by these two agencies have been formidable, and it is quite impossible that they will ever be repaid in full. In the former case no question of repayment arises, as the land is not to be sold to the settlers. Yet it is certain that no adequate interest in the form of rent could be paid by the settlers on the outlay of the Fund on their holdings. In the case of the KerenHayesod also the outlay has been lavish, and the whole of the colonies are so overcapitalised that it will prove essential both to write off a considerable amount of the outlay and to fix the rate of interest on the balance at an uneconomic level if the outlay is to be liquidated. The Jewish National Fund and the KerenHayesod have very kindly submitted consolidated statements of their expenditure, which are printed as Appendices 8 and 9 to this Report. In the former, excluding the items " Urban Land ", " Urban Buildings ", and " Lands ", the sum of £1,545,659 appears to have been spent on agricultural colonisation. In the latter, the items " Urban Colonisation ", " National Organisations ", " Investments ", and " Jewish National Fund " do not appear to be expenditure on colonisation in the country. The balance is £3,345,531. Adding these two sums together, the total cost of agricultural colonisation by the Zionist Organisation appears to have been £4,891,190.* The number of persons actually settled for this sum is shown in Appendix 10a statement submitted by the Jewish agency.
Population of settlements.The total population of the Zionist settlements in 1930 (included therein being the " supported settlements ") consisted of 4,406 adults, and 2,364 children under 15 years of age. The cost of colonisation of a family has thus been very large.

" Article 11.The settler undertakes to work the said holding personally, or with the aid of his family, and not to hire any outside labour except Jewish labourers."

Zionist policy in regard to Arabs in their colonies.The above quoted provisions sufficiently illustrate the Zionist policy with regard to the Arabs in their colonies. Attempts are constantly being made to establish the advantage which Jewish settlement has brought to the Arab. The most lofty sentiments are ventilated at public meetings and in Zionist propaganda. At the time of the Zionist Congress in 1921 a resolution was passed which '' solemnly declared the desire of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people in relations of friendship and mutual respect, and, together with the Arab people, to develop the homeland common to both into a prosperous community which would ensure the growth of the peoples." This resolution is frequently quoted in proof of the excellent sentiments which Zionism cherishes towards the people of Palestine. The provisions quoted above, which are included in legal documents binding on every settler in a Zionist colony, are not compatible with the sentiments publicly expressed.

The same remark applies to the following extract from the Memorandum submitted by the General Federation of Jewish Labour to the " Palestine Commission of Enquiry " (i.e., the Commission on the Palestine disturbances of August, 1929) :

" The Jewish Labour Movement considers the Arab population as an integral element in this country. It is not to be thought of that Jewish settlers should displace this population, nor establish themselves at its expense. This would not only be impossible both from the political and economic standpoint, but it would run counter to the moral conception lying at the root of the Zionist movement. Jewish immigrants who come to this country to live by their own labour regard the Arab working man as their compatriot and fellow worker, whose needs are their needs and whose future is their future."

The effect of the Zionist colonisation policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialised. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land. Nor can anyone help him by purchasing the land and restoring it to common use. The land is in mortmain and inalienable. It is for this reason that Arabs discount the professions of friendship and good will on the part of the Zionists in view of the policy which the Zionist Organisation deliberately adopted.

As can be seen from the above report there were no extra jobs in the area from Zionist colonisation. And the Land was not farmed by the Arabs which reinforces the palestinian Arab exodus from the area, there was no immigration of Arabs at all. A field mouse plague was caused by Zionist farming causing problems for the Arabs in the area.

The colonists have not yet begun to repay any of the money due to the KerenHayesod for installation, nor is rent being paid to the KerenKayemeth.

The colonists were getting supported from outside sources not from their own endevours.

Originally Posted by ashleykennedy";p=&quot

Moishe 3rd you wrote:-

Its been disproved, there was an exodus of Palestinian Arabs -798 Christian -3120 Muslims while an influx of Jews 57826. which figures don't you understand. Verified and proved!

Ms Joan Peters and Daniel Pipes got smoked by Porath.

And they are still growing faster than Jewish immigration augments Jewish Births.

The race between the two secular ex-generals for the premiership was more ominous, with fatal consequences to this day. Both Allon and Dayan were curiously self-centered, as politicians often are, and blind to the Palestinian presence in the region. They dismissed the aspirations of over a million Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza Strip as of limited political importance. They had no intention to offer them Israeli citizenship. Some 300,000 Palestinians already lived in Israel proper, increasingly embittered by their status as second-class citizens. The Jewish population in 1967 was 2.7 million; the combined Arab population west of the river Jordan was 1.3 million. It was as though France had decided in 1938 to absorb as many as 20 million restive, potentially subversive Germans within borders that were surrounded, as Israel was, by more than a hundred million of their hostile, heavily armed co-nationals. Today, thirty-five years later, 4.1 million Palestinians live between the river Jordan and the sea (3.1 million in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip and 1 million Palestinians in Israel proper.) Despite heavy Jewish immigration since 1967 there are still only some 5 million Jews, a ratio of only 1.2 to 1. Higher Palestinian birthrates are certain to assure an absolute Palestinian majority within ten or fifteen years.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/15935

And are still out breeding the Jews of Israel.

Population Growth rate Gaza 3.71% (2006 est.)
Israel 1.18% (2006 est.)
West Bank 3.06% (2006 est.)

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/is.html

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/gz.html

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications...k/geos/we.html

Interesting but it realy is so verified and proved. And you wonder why your version of History is termed a myth?

Originally Posted by klipkap";p=&quot

Moishe I am afraid I am going to have to ask you to find someone else to explain why it is irrelevant to compare Palestinian growth figures to those of Tierra del Fuego, Tahiti, or Gough Island. It is simply not pertinent, but I am not going to give you a recap of Logic 101 or of global demographic analysis.

And as for your question whether there is something special that causes Palestinian ladies to have more babies than folk in western Tibet or the islands off Papua New Guinea - Yes there is!!!

Close your eyes Moishe because this is going to hurt big time. It is their secret weapon, more powerful than the latest product from Lockheed and more versatile than the latest M-16. Ask the Knesset why they are so worried about the growth rates of the Israeli Palestinians.

To quote Ashley - just face it Moishe and dont weasel:

Population Growth rate Gaza 3.71% (2006 est.)
Israel 1.18% (2006 est.)
West Bank 3.06% (2006 est.)

Originally Posted by ashleykennedy";p=&quot

From Klipkaps posting it maybe thought that Palestinians were flocking to Cis Jordan as the Jewish farms were extremely potent, and awash with modern technology. So how come during the period of 1922 to 1930 there was an exodus of Palestinians?

Immigration into Palestine

Jew Christian Muslim
Year Immi Emig Immi Emig Immi Emig Total
1923 7,421 3466 402 713 168 768 7991
1924 12,856 507 510 353 187 251 13,553
1925 33,801 2151 741 1201 96 748 34,641
1926 13,081 7965 611 1505 218 559 13,910
1927 2,713 5071 758 813 124 1094 3595
1928 2178 2168 710 547 198 407 3086
1929 5249 1746 1117 792 200 297 6566
1930 2568 739 480 166 60 161 3108
Total 81,283 23457 5370 6198 1267 4387 87920
Net 57826 -798 -3120
Percentage 92.5% 6.1% 1.4% 100%

From Appendix 22 to
PALESTINE.
Report on
Immigration, Land Settlement
and Development.
By
SIR JOHN HOPE SIMPSON, C.I.E.
1930
Presented by the Secretary of State for the Colonies to
Parliament by Command of His Majesty.
October, 1930

http://domino.un.org/pdfs/appendices.pdf

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/e3ed8720f8707c9385256d19004f057c!OpenDocument

The fellah as a cultivator.The fellah is neither lazy nor unintelligent. He is a competent and capable agriculturist, and there is little doubt that were he to be given the chance of learning better methods, and the capital, which is a necessary preliminary to their employment, he would rapidly improve his position. Meanwhile, however, the income which he can procure from his inadequate farm is insufficient to maintain him in a decent standard of comfort and leaves no margin whatever for improvements.

Expenditure by KerenKayemeth and KerenHayesod.The amounts spent by these two agencies have been formidable, and it is quite impossible that they will ever be repaid in full. In the former case no question of repayment arises, as the land is not to be sold to the settlers. Yet it is certain that no adequate interest in the form of rent could be paid by the settlers on the outlay of the Fund on their holdings. In the case of the KerenHayesod also the outlay has been lavish, and the whole of the colonies are so overcapitalised that it will prove essential both to write off a considerable amount of the outlay and to fix the rate of interest on the balance at an uneconomic level if the outlay is to be liquidated. The Jewish National Fund and the KerenHayesod have very kindly submitted consolidated statements of their expenditure, which are printed as Appendices 8 and 9 to this Report. In the former, excluding the items " Urban Land ", " Urban Buildings ", and " Lands ", the sum of £1,545,659 appears to have been spent on agricultural colonisation. In the latter, the items " Urban Colonisation ", " National Organisations ", " Investments ", and " Jewish National Fund " do not appear to be expenditure on colonisation in the country. The balance is £3,345,531. Adding these two sums together, the total cost of agricultural colonisation by the Zionist Organisation appears to have been £4,891,190.* The number of persons actually settled for this sum is shown in Appendix 10a statement submitted by the Jewish agency.
Population of settlements.The total population of the Zionist settlements in 1930 (included therein being the " supported settlements ") consisted of 4,406 adults, and 2,364 children under 15 years of age. The cost of colonisation of a family has thus been very large.

" Article 11.The settler undertakes to work the said holding personally, or with the aid of his family, and not to hire any outside labour except Jewish labourers."

Zionist policy in regard to Arabs in their colonies.The above quoted provisions sufficiently illustrate the Zionist policy with regard to the Arabs in their colonies. Attempts are constantly being made to establish the advantage which Jewish settlement has brought to the Arab. The most lofty sentiments are ventilated at public meetings and in Zionist propaganda. At the time of the Zionist Congress in 1921 a resolution was passed which '' solemnly declared the desire of the Jewish people to live with the Arab people in relations of friendship and mutual respect, and, together with the Arab people, to develop the homeland common to both into a prosperous community which would ensure the growth of the peoples." This resolution is frequently quoted in proof of the excellent sentiments which Zionism cherishes towards the people of Palestine. The provisions quoted above, which are included in legal documents binding on every settler in a Zionist colony, are not compatible with the sentiments publicly expressed.

The same remark applies to the following extract from the Memorandum submitted by the General Federation of Jewish Labour to the " Palestine Commission of Enquiry " (i.e., the Commission on the Palestine disturbances of August, 1929) :

" The Jewish Labour Movement considers the Arab population as an integral element in this country. It is not to be thought of that Jewish settlers should displace this population, nor establish themselves at its expense. This would not only be impossible both from the political and economic standpoint, but it would run counter to the moral conception lying at the root of the Zionist movement. Jewish immigrants who come to this country to live by their own labour regard the Arab working man as their compatriot and fellow worker, whose needs are their needs and whose future is their future."

The effect of the Zionist colonisation policy on the Arab. Actually the result of the purchase of land in Palestine by the Jewish National Fund has been that land has been extraterritorialised. It ceases to be land from which the Arab can gain any advantage either now or at any time in the future. Not only can he never hope to lease or to cultivate it, but, by the stringent provisions of the lease of the Jewish National Fund, he is deprived for ever from employment on that land. Nor can anyone help him by purchasing the land and restoring it to common use. The land is in mortmain and inalienable. It is for this reason that Arabs discount the professions of friendship and good will on the part of the Zionists in view of the policy which the Zionist Organisation deliberately adopted.

As can be seen from the above report there were no extra jobs in the area from Zionist colonisation. And the Land was not farmed by the Arabs which reinforces the palestinian Arab exodus from the area, there was no immigration of Arabs at all. A field mouse plague was caused by Zionist farming causing problems for the Arabs in the area.

The colonists have not yet begun to repay any of the money due to the KerenHayesod for installation, nor is rent being paid to the KerenKayemeth.

The colonists were getting supported from outside sources not from their own endevours.