(the previosu string locked due unfortunate behavior of those who disagree)

Jerusalem

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08364a.htm
(Catholic Encyclopedia)

Present condition of the City (1905)

""5. Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures:
Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50.
During the Nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly half the present population..""

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Growth of Jerusalem 1838-Present
The Growth of Jerusalem

....... Jews Muslims Christians Total
1838 6,000 5,000 3,000 14,000
1844 7,120 5,760 3,390 16,270 ..... ...The First Official Ottoman Census (abu)
1876 12,000 7,560 5,470 25,030 .... ..Second """"""""""
1905 40,000 8,000 10,900 58,900 .....& third/last, detailed in NewAdvent Catholic Encyclopedia link above)
1948 99,320 36,680 31,300 167,300
1990 353,200 124,200 14,000 491,400
1992 385,000 150,000 15,000 550,000

http://www.testimony-magazine.org/jerusalem/bring.htm

Pease note, My debunking of 'Myth' strings have CONTENT; not just (like baffling klipklap #'s only titles !?!?!) and one sentence Opinions Unbacked by any facts whatsoever.
.

Abu Wrote:-

As raytri said:-

http://www.politicalforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=23339
Moslem Christian Jew Druze British Palestinian
Officers 8 8
Warrant Officers 10 10
Other Ranks 328 37 108 9 482
Approximate cost, £E.83, 000, borne by Palestine funds.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/a87d21f4e57f2d0f052565e8004bace0!OpenDocument

So there were Palestinians referred to in Palestine that were not Jews.

King-Crane Commission
1) The Commissioner began their study of Zionism with minds predisposed in its favour, but the actual facts in Palestine, coupled with the force of the general principles proclaimed by the Allies and accepted by the Syrians have driven them to the recommendation here made.
3) The Commission recognised also that definite encouragement had been given to the Zionists by the Allies in Mr. Balfour's often quoted statement, in its approval by other representatives of the Allies. If, however, the strict terms of the Balfour Statement are adhered to-favouring "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people," "it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" - it can hardly be doubted that the extreme Zionist programme must be greatly modified. For a national home for the Jewish people is not equivalent to making Palestine into a Jewish State; nor can the erection of such a Jewish State be accomplished without the gravest trespass upon the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine. The fact came out repeatedly in the Commission's conferences with Jewish representatives, that the Zionists looked forward to a practically complete disposition of the present non-Jewish inhabitants of Palestine, by various forms of purchase.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/392ad7eb00902a0c852570c000795153!OpenDocument

What made the King-Crane commission start to change their minds about a purely Jewish state in Palestine?
Again from the King-Crane Commission.
The Peace Conference should not shut its eyes to the fact that the anti-Zionist feeling in Palestine and Syria is intense and not lightly to be flouted. No British officer, consulted by the Commissioners, believed that the Zionist programme could be carried out except by force of arms. The officers generally thought that a force of not less than 50,000 soldiers would be required even to initiate the programme. That of itself is evidence of a strong sense of the injustice of the Zionist programme, on the part of the non-Jewish populations of Palestine and Syria. Decisions requiring armies to carry out are sometimes necessary, but they are surely not gratuitously to be taken in the interests of serious injustices. For the initial claim, often submitted by Zionist representatives, that they have a "right" to Palestine based on an occupation of 2,000 years ago, can hardly be seriously considered.

In view of all these considerations, and with a deep sense of sympathy for the Jewish cause, the Commissioners feel bound to recommend that only a greatly reduced Zionist programme be attempted by the Peace Conference, and even that, only very gradually initiated. This would have to mean that Jewish immigration should be definitely limited, and that the project for making Palestine distinctly a Jewish commonwealth should be given up.

Because it was not practicable.

1927
Christians. Moslems. Jews. Others. Total.
76,839 545,225 147,687 8,618 778,369

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/d0523c86855faa6e052565e700693905!OpenDocument

1928
Christians. Moslems. Jews. Others. Total.
78,463 557,649 149,554 8,850 794,516

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/1f42f479cc2b94a1052565e7006500ab!OpenDocument
1929
http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/38bed104db074b49052565e70054eb22!OpenDocument
And why am I doing this. Because if you go onto the UN website and call up the documents then take the deaths away from births you will see that the increase in Palestinians is by natural increase, in fact you will also find that there was a decrease of Palestinians by emigration. It’s funny how the Zionists always say that it was the better Jewish farming and commercial practices made an increase of Arab immigration. Whereas it can be found that the opposite is in fact true.

These are also a good refutation of all of your facts.

PALESTINE. Report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development.

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/e3ed8720f8707c9385256d19004f057c!OpenDocument

APPENDICES to PALESTINE. Report on Immigration, Land Settlement and Development

http://domino.un.org/pdfs/appendices.pdf

When relying on El Quds please try not to forget that Jerusalem is not the whole of Palestine. Please try to use the reports that are available and not on a discredited site interpretation of what you wish happened.

Jerusalem (El Quds) is the capital of a sanjak and the seat of a mutasarrif directly dependent on the Sublime Porte. In the administration of the sanjak the mutasarrif is assisted by a council called majlis ida ra; the city has a municipal government (majlis baladiye) presided over by a mayor. The total population is estimated at 66,000. The Turkish census of 1905, which counts only Ottoman subjects, gives these figures: Jews, 45,000; Moslems, 8,000; Orthodox Christians, 6000; Latins, 2500; Armenians, 950; Protestants, 800; Melkites, 250; Copts, 150; Abyssinians, 100; Jacobites, 100; Catholic Syrians, 50. During the nineteenth century large suburbs to the north and east have grown up, chiefly for the use of the Jewish colony. These suburbs contain nearly half the present population.

http://www.ramallahonline.com/module...iewtopic&t=819

As we can see from your postings at Ramallah online you do stipulate that these are only Ottoman subjects. Which means that the Moslem did not always register to avoid military service/taxes and also that some Jews did not register to avoid taxes and to maintain the status as foreign nationals.

So the figures have little or no meaning in themselves.

The population figures for mandatory and Turkish Palestine are of historical interest and figure in many historical debates. The Zionist claim that Palestine was "a land without a people" is challenged by pro-Palestinian historians who cite census figures showing a substantial Palestinian-Arab population by 1914. The Zionists note that most of this increase seems to have occurred after 1880, when Jews began developing Palestine. In particular, Joan Peters ("From Time Immemorial") claimed that a large proportion of the population increase among Arabs was due to immigration. Pro-Palestinian historians try to make a case that Zionist settlement had begun displacing Palestinians before 1948.

Uncertainties in the data - Debates about the population of Palestine flourish because of the lack of good information and confusion over the meaning of census figures, and the will of partisans to distort history. Census figures of the Ottoman Empire were unreliable. Foreign residents were not counted, and illegal residents did their best to evade the census, as did people wishing to evade military services and taxes. The population figures of the British mandate were more reliable, but there was no published census taken after 1931. Mandatory figures for the period after 1931 are based on hospital and immigration records and extrapolation, it seems. Nomadic Bedouin were not counted or undercounted in both Ottoman and British censuses. Those who became settled in Palestine would then add to population figures. In studying the population of Palestine between 1800 and 1948, we must keep in mind that there was only one agreed-upon reliable census in all that time, which took place in 1931. The British census of 1922 was taken in less than settled conditions, and may have undercounted the population. The Ottoman figures certainly undercounted. The census data of 1922 and 1931 and the estimates based on these censuses have also been challenged but they appear to be internally consistent. That is, in the main, the number of people reported by the British mandate in 1922 and 1931 is consistent with the rates of natural increase that they reported. The numbers given in the 1945 survey are about 100,000 or more below what would be expected based on the number of refugees and remaining population in 1948. Uncertainties in infant mortality and underreporting of births would not account for all of this discrepancy. It could be due to illegal immigration or in part to settling of nomadic Bedouins in the Palestinian Arab population..

http://www.mideastweb.org/palpop.htm

What myth are you attempting to “debunk” anyway?

Was it the Myths that Joan Peters always uses?

Yes Abu, that might be so, but what Myth are you in fact attempting to debunk .... (just to show that I don't ignore you completely when you fail to place your own conclusion in a post).

I suspect you might be trying to debunk the Myth 2, that the majority of Arabs in the contested area (Palestine and Israel) are decendents of immigrants who arrived following the Zionist settlers.

1) If that is so, then you seem to be suggesting that Jerusalem represents the entirity of the disputed "Holy land". Naturally I disagree with that.

2) Otherwise you are suggesting that if you can show immigration to be a factor in a tiny piece of a territory, then it must also be so for the 99% of the remaining territory. I view that as being unsubstantiated based on accepted principals of logic.

So please tell us, what was your post meant to debunk?

My post/string was simply meant to debunk that there were no Jews in Palestine before the Holocaust.. or 1900.
ergo, when considering creating all the countries the British did in dividing the Ottoman Empire--- giving Israel a small sliver/1% was quite fair.

Unlike your BIZARRE 'Myth Strings' which merely use a number and then state a ALLEGED myth!.. mine have Numbers/Facts/Figures.. while yours are laughable and completely empty, unsupported postulates.

You really show an Astonishing vacuousness; title a string with a mere 'Zionist' and 'number, and then stating an unargued sentence or two you call a 'myth', but don't do a thing to prove IS a Myth.
Most in fact are TRUTHES.
.
See y'all in a few weeks.

Truly bizarre all the statistics that Klipkap and I have used have always incorporated the number of Jews present in Palestine prior to 1948.

1927
Christians. Moslems. Jews. Others. Total.
76,839 545,225 147,687 8,618 778,369

http://domino.un.org/UNISPAl.NSF/9a798adbf322aff38525617b006d88d7/d0523c86855faa6e052565e700693905!OpenDocument

Uhm .... you seem to be the only one who doesn't understand Abu. They start off as a statement of what I see as a theme that I have enountered on a number of the Zionists web sites that I have visited, and which I further view as not being in line with recorded historical facts. I have therefore chosen to call them myths. In most cases you will see that they have indeed encouraged debate, so disproving your statement of 'vacuousness'. But we know that you like calling people names, and we are learning to live with it.

Uhm .... seems you are guilty of what you have accused me of. That quote is a statement of faith. If you intend to take it beyond that category, I invite you to prove that they are true. This is the process that I have followed with the 'myths'. And Abu, if you are going to cut-and-paste from other peoples publications, please also put your own conclusion somewhere. Many thanks.

Had to defensively start his EMPTY 'Zionist myth' strings.

He couldn't debate the truth of mine Loaded with info - so just started his own to the contrary with NO facts, just assertions!

Afak your debate has no truths and are loaded with Joan Peters Myths and Hoaxes. Which were then plagiarised by Dershowitz and peddled as new by yourself. They were a Hoax based on selective reading of the Hope Simpson report.

The Hope Simpson report is available on line at UNISPAL dated 1930

Hope Simpson report 1930

Which tells you who was there and who came immigration both temporary and permanent. Joan Peters took the temporary agricultural workers that crossed over for seasonal work and added them into permanent immigrants and then multiplied the lot to come up with a hoax.

and on that line; why would they come to Palestine as though attracted to the Jewish flowering of the desert myth when the Jewish Kibbutz and businesses were operating an "employ Jewish only labour" policy as inaugurated by the JNF and Histadrut?

On the other hand, Dr. Strahorn writes:-

" .... Up to within recent years the land was cultivated from the Arab villages, located round the rim of the Plain. Cereals together with minor garden areas around the villages constituted the Arab cropping system. In very recent years considerable areas of land have passed under the control of Jewish colonies and villages; gardens and orchards are now dotting the former expanse of grain-fields . . . . "

From:-Reports of the experts submitted to the Joint Palestine survey commission. page. 152
by Frank Adams; John Campbell, Sir; Cyril Q Henriques; Jacob Goodale Lipman; Elwood Mead; M J Rosenau; Edward J Russell, Sir; Knowles Augustus Ryerson; Arthur Thomas Strahorn; Charles Francis Wilinsky; Leo Wolman; which formed part of the:- Joint Palestine Survey Commission. Boston: Press of Daniels Printing, 1928.


'It was the Palestinians who made the desert bloom!'
Khalidi, Walid. Before Their Diaspora: A Photographic History of the Palestinians 1876-1948. Washington DC: Institute for Palestine Studies, 1991.

"Contrary to prevailing opinion in the Western world, the Palestinians were responsible for the bulk of agricultural production in the country during the British Mandate. By the end of the Mandate, the total land area under cultivation by Palestinian farmers (excluding citrus) was 5,484, 700 dunams (one dunum=one thousand square meters), and the area cultivated by Jewish farmers was 435,500 dunums. [1] With regard to desert cultivation, by 1935 The Palestinians were farming 2,109,234 dunams in the Negev, [2] whereas total Jewish landholdings in the Negev in 1946 did not exceed 21,000 dunams. Thus it was the Palestinians who made the desert bloom!" (page 125)

1. A Survey of Palestine: Prepared in December 1945 and January 1946 for the Information of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, 2 vols. and supp. (Jerusalem: Government of Palestine, 1946), 1:323.

2. The Area of Cultivable Land in Palestine (Jerusalem Jewish Agency, 1936), p. 13.

Thank you for moe's sake.

__________________
"One always finds in Palestine Arabs who have been in the country only a few Weeks or a few Months...Since they are themselves strangers in a strange land, they are the loudest to cry: 'Out with the Jews!...Amongst them are to be found representatives of every Arab country: Arabs from Transjordan, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Egypt, the Sudan and Iraq.

Ladislas Farago, Palestine at the Crossroads (New York: Putnam 1937) p17

I always found the Jewish claim that they "made the desert bloom" funny because Jews showed over and over again to have nothing but contempt for working with the land! Jews are urban people, they don't like nature and even less working with it. It's shown in the empirical fact that in not many areas Jews are so highly underrepresented in their host nations than in agriculture!

__________________
In times of universal deceit the love of truth becomes the most radical of all ideologies.

Still a Caveman? - Your Mind is Controlled - The Brainwashing of the West - Your thoughts are not your own

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