Why Are There No Israelis In This Forum?

[Mr. Fingers]

We can't forget the 1973 Yom Kippur war. All this obsession with '67 completely ignores the failed Arab surprise attack in a great and holy sin to both religions by making war on Yom Kippur during Ramadan.

Lol. Because the founding of a state by individuals on a land that does not belong to them is all fine and dandy. How is it a great and holy sin to Islam? You really are an idiot.

History has rendered it's verdict.

It certainly hasn't. Israel is losing support around the world and the Arab population growth rate is higher than that of Israelis. Zionism will ultimately fail, and theirs nothing that a ignorant right-wing nut-job like you can do about it.

[Borat]

We can't forget the 1973 Yom Kippur war. All this obsession with '67 completely ignores the failed Arab surprise attack in a great and holy sin to both religions by making war on Yom Kippur during Ramadan.

The Arabs lost, then tried to steal back what they lost and lost again.

History has rendered it's verdict. The Palestinians need to just move somewhere because they will always be doomed to live like rats.

You are absolutely right of course, they conveniently avoid any mentioning of both 1948 and 1973 wars, the only desperate tactic that's available to them is to try to demonize Israel by pinning the 1967 war on them just because they fired the first shot.

Needless to say this is just as absurd and illogical as demanding that a cop who sees someone with a suicide belt board a bus in Jerusalem, to not shoot him on the spot but instead wait for him to explode and read the Miranda rights to what's left of him.

[Borat]

Lol. Because the founding of a state by individuals on a land that does not belong to them is all fine and dandy. How is it a great and holy sin to Islam? You really are an idiot.

The arabs owned about 45% of the land, they got 45% of the land during the partition. Moreover individual arab owners who ended up on the Israeli side of the partition and chose to become loyal Israeli citizens retained their property, their land and all other posessions. You have no leg to stand on.

[creation]

LOL, that's a no-brainer, they are quite frank about it. Any solution that does not leave Israel as a Jewish-majority state in the middle-east, any solution which will replace a tiny jewish state with a 24th arab state. The pushing into the sea part usually comes next, when Jews are a minority. Do you think their spin and rhetoric is fooling anyone? Their objectives are quite obvious - no Israel.

Usually? Bigoted against arabs much?

I take that means youve no intention of actually asking them what they think. Too bad, so sad.

I don't dispute that I do the same, you disputed the fact that they are obsessed with Israel. And there is another subtle difference. I am pro-Israel so calling me an arab bigot is inaccurate. They are anti-Israel and calling them Israel haters is fully justified.

Wrong. I disputed that their constant posting on this subject makes them anti-semites as you claim.
Youre just pro-israel? Thatll be your sig is anti-islam re palestinians. Youre a bit more than just pro-israel - thats the proof.

Youve said theyre jew haters, anti- semites etc because they criticise israel too many times for your liking.

LOL, straw man much? Who fired the first bullet in 1967 has never been disputed. The fact that the arabs closed the Straits (an act of war), kicked out the peace keepers (violation of the armistice agreement restoring the pre-agreement de-jure state of war) and massed troops, tanks, artillery etc on all Israeli borders demonstrates that Israel had every legal right for a pre-emptive attack. The fact that there were no anti-Israel UN resolutions or any other legal consequences also confirmed that Israel's actions were legal and legitimate...your and your camp's understanding of international law notwithstanding. The fact that Israel immediately accepted UNSC land for peace resolution and the arab world responded with the infamous 'no peace, no recognition and no negotiations with Israel' also demonstrated quite well who wanted peace and who wanted to wipe a neighbor off the map.

Why a straw man? its just an example. Lets see you take it on in serious debate.

On the issue though. Youll find that no peace etc etc was just after the 67 invasions, and came in response to israel refusal to leave east jerusalem. The later Jarring initiative that israel refused proves it wasnt interested in peace before land.

[Borat]

Youre just pro-israel? Thatll be your sig is anti-islam re palestinians. Youre a bit more than just pro-israel - thats the proof.

My signature is not anti-Islam, it states the facts and it's anti-one state solution. If the arabs want to have Islam and sharia law in all 23 arab states I could not care less. I just don't think it's realistic to expect the jews to accept a minority status, especially in a religious, sharia-based country.

Youre just pro-israel?Youve said theyre jew haters, anti- semites etc because they criticise israel too many times for your liking.

Nice try again but you already tried that earlier in this thread. They are obsessed with Israel, bash (not criticize) Israel exclusively, Israel can do no right in their eyes, Israel's enemies can do no wrong, their objective is not a constructive criticism of Israel to make it better but demonization, deligitimization and eventual elimination of Israel.

You claimed (baselessly) I was not willing to engage in a debate, now how about showing a little intellectual honesty and integrity and admitting that I am right about their goals. You can say that, seriously it's OK, everyone knows.

[Marlowe]

Nice try again but you already tried that earlier in this thread. They are obsessed with Israel, bash (not criticize) Israel exclusively, Israel can do no right in their eyes, Israel's enemies can do no wrong, their objective is not a constructive criticism of Israel to make it better but demonization, deligitimization and eventual elimination of Israel.
.

Bo-Rat , its a two way street. , The accussation you're making against "THey/them " are , as others see it, EXACTLY
that of Zionists/Israelis/Hasbarists/propagandists , fundamemntalists/settlers/colonists Jews etc. towards the Palestinians .

i.e. - To demonize/deligitimize and to eliminate / obstruct / make the establishment of a viable /contigeous Independent Palestinian state impossible.

IMO - ISRAELI + sincere positive CONTRUCTIVE Support from diaspora Jewry for an independent viable Palestinian state , would do a great deal in lessening opposition/ criticsm of Israeli policies. Dont you agree ?



..

[creation]

My signature is not anti-Islam, it states the facts and it's anti-one state solution. If the arabs want to have Islam and sharia law in all 23 arab states I could not care less. I just don't think it's realistic to expect the jews to accept a minority status, especially in a religious, sharia-based country.

Come off it. No one has ever expected that israelis even in a one state solution would ever be expected to accept sharia law in that one state solution. Rather way back in 1948 at the UN, those nations not under super power influence that favoured a one state favoured a secular democracy for all. Jews would have a vote under a secular constitution just as anyone else would.

Even if Jews were a minority theyd only be a sliver minority and theres still no reason for them to accept sharia law, and nor do most palestinians think so or have any reason to expect them to nor have they ever argued such. The laws they proclaim are for their state. A state involving large numbers of israelis would be far far different.

Nice try again but you already tried that earlier in this thread. They are obsessed with Israel, bash (not criticize) Israel exclusively, Israel can do no right in their eyes, Israel's enemies can do no wrong, their objective is not a constructive criticism of Israel to make it better but demonization, deligitimization and eventual elimination of Israel.

You claimed (baselessly) I was not willing to engage in a debate, now how about showing a little intellectual honesty and integrity and admitting that I am right about their goals. You can say that, seriously it's OK, everyone knows.

Oh really Borat its you thats playing the little game here. Ill explain how you do it;

You tell us.....Its not that theyre criticising, its that theyre 'obsessing' or 'bashing'.. Thats a pure deception on your part - youve introduced a vague term (how does one actually judge between consistent criticism, obsessing or bashing - by your standards?) that no one can really say against because, what exactly is it were talking about and how do we quantify this?, having no firm ground on which to say this criticism is or is not unreasonable bashing or obsessing you expect that your proclamation can carry the day.

Youre deceptive and wrong on a number of points - they dont say israel does nothing right, nor does its enemies do nothing wrong. Thats a flat out direct refutation of your accusation.

Moreover, even a policy of a one state solution is not an anti-semitic proposition. It was even supported in israel for a time in the years after 1948..yes thats right...by israelis.

By the way, do you think these israelis are anti-semites? http://zochrot.org/en/menu/%D7%96%D7...97%D7%A0%D7%95

Thats the integrity and honesty you asked for. Now show a bit yourself and admit that the only real anti-semitic arguments are those blood libels against jews (we know what they are), and world conspiracy stuff like the protocols or jewish international banking.
All this stuff about Moon or about 'self hating' jews (as so many of the deceptive pro-israelis argue) is actually far more anti-semitic as it deliberatly suppresses the free debate that is at the heart of best things about the jewish people. Its about time you recognised that and had the courage to simply take on people such as Moon's arguments rather than labelling him as anti-jewish.

[Borat]

Come off it. No one has ever expected that israelis even in a one state solution would ever be expected to accept sharia law in that one state solution. Rather way back in 1948 at the UN, those nations not under super power influence that favoured a one state favoured a secular democracy for all. Jews would have a vote under a secular constitution just as anyone else would.

Even if Jews were a minority theyd only be a sliver minority and theres still no reason for them to accept sharia law, and nor do most palestinians think so or have any reason to expect them to nor have they ever argued such. The laws they proclaim are for their state. A state involving large numbers of israelis would be far far different.

I hope you understand that you are ignoring 2,000 years of Jewish history of being a minority, you are ignoring the fact that this 'co-existence' failed in Yugoslavia, the USSR, Sudan even quiet Czechoslovakia, that Egyptian Christians are terrified... You are ignoring the fact that almost a million jews who did absolutely nothing wrong were subjected to pogroms, persecutions, intimidation and eventually expelled from arab states between 1948 and 1975...You are ignoring facts and substituting them with wishful thinking. You can of course be cavalier about it in Glasgow, if you are wrong you will say 'Oops', my bad and down a few shots of scotch whiskey to forget all about it, the jews will pay with their blood once again.

You tell us.....Its not that theyre criticising, its that theyre 'obsessing' or 'bashing'.. Thats a pure deception on your part - youve introduced a vague term (how does one actually judge between consistent criticism, obsessing or bashing - by your standards?)

Nothing vague about it: obsession: a persistent disturbing preoccupation with an often unreasonable idea or feeling;
Starting dozens of threads and dozens (if not hundreds) of comments daily on almost exclusively one topic (Israel) is a classic case of obsession.

they dont say israel does nothing right

LOL show me an example of moon or moonbats having anything positive at all to say about Israel.

Thats the integrity and honesty you asked for.

LOL, not really, I don't think you understand, intellectual integrity and honesty is when you critically reevaluate your views and stereotypes, not when you recite them.

[Borat]

Bo-Rat , its a two way street.
...
IMO - ISRAELI + sincere positive CONTRUCTIVE Support from diaspora Jewry for an independent viable Palestinian state , would do a great deal in lessening opposition/ criticsm of Israeli policies. Dont you agree ?

As part of a two way street sure why not? Are we going to see sincere positive CONSTRUCTIVE Support from the arab/muslim world for an independent viable Jewish state? Did not happen in 1948, has not happened since, personally I don't hold my breath. But if it ever happens, then yes you are right and equal push to create an Independent viable Palestinian state will be absolutely warranted.

[MegadethFan]

It seems like the Palestinians only have the Americans to argue with in this forum. Why do you think this is so?

In my experience (in debating three Israelis) they either run away once a good argument is presented or are so vitriolic and dedicated to ad hominem - like calling everything antisemitic - they end up getting banned. For example the guy above me has yet to reply to my lenghy rebuttal of his argument, for rather obvious reasons: http://www.politicalforum.com/latest...ml#post4736320