Thread: Islam, Arabs, invented Palestinians

Exploring blood-soaked roots of Arab feud - Salim Mansur
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/12/09...s-of-arab-feud

The Islamic calendar is based on the cycle of 12 lunar months and the first month, Muharram, in this Islamic year of 1433 began two weeks ago at the end of November.

The 10th day of Muharram, known as Ashura, is significant to Muslims and how it is commemorated sets them apart in a feud that goes back to the founding years of Islam.

This feud remains literally explosive and every Ashura, somewhere in the Arab-Muslim world — as happened this week in Kabul — fanatics among the majority Sunni Muslims set forth to kill members of the minority Shia Muslims.

This feud’s origin lies in an immense crime. It is the murder of Husain, the grandson of Muhammad, the prophet of Islam, and born to his favourite daughter Fatima, married to Ali, his cousin.

Those responsible for this crime eliminated any claim on the part of Ali, and his sons — Hasan and Husain — to succeed Muhammad in leading the newly united tribes of Arabia under the flag of Islam.

The struggle over Muhammad’s succession began as his health failed and before his death in 632, the year 10 in the Islamic calendar. It divided the first generation of Muslims, led to wars, assassinations, and the murder of Ali and Hasan.

In 680, the year 61 in the Islamic calendar, Husain was invited by the people of Kufa in Iraq to join them, assume leadership among Muslims that was his by lineage, and represent the righteous order subverted by the existing ruler in Damascus.

Husain responded and with family and friends, around 100 in number, departed Medina for Kufa. But some 64 km ahead of the destination at Karbala, Husain’s caravan was blocked by an army under orders from Damascus.

Husain was ordered to surrender and recognize Yazid, son of Muawiya and grandson of Abu Sufyan — the most bitter foe of Muhammad — as the caliph in Damascus.

Husain was trapped. He chose to resist. Fighting broke out, and the male companions of Husain were killed.

Then finally on Ashura, Yazid’s army bore down upon Husain and decapitated him in the field of Karbala. His body was trampled upon by the cavalry that rushed him, his head removed and hoisted upon a spear, the female members of his family humiliated and bound as slaves, and taken, along with Husain’s head as a trophy, to Damascus.

Lesley Hazleton, in a recently published book After the Prophet: The Epic Story of the Shia-Sunni Split (2010), narrates this blood-chilling history. It should be read widely to understand the feud that remains explosive into our time among Muslims.

Hazleton’s narrative is based entirely on the most reliable accounts of the events by Muslim historians from the first and second century of the Islamic calendar. The most notable and respected of these historians is the man simply known as al-Tabari (838-923), and his voluminous account of the earliest years of Arab-Muslim history are the primary source of all subsequent writings about Islam’s early years.

For the vast majority of Muslims this history has been air-brushed, and there can be little understanding of Arab-Muslim politics without fully grasping what occurred on Ashura more than 13 centuries ago.

Gingrich calls Palestinians an "invented" people
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7B823Z20111209

This has NOTHING to do with Palestinians.

Originally Posted by Margot

This has NOTHING to do with Palestinians.

What was the tilte again? Did you read all of it. How about this question: are you a convert or just an apologist & appeaser?

"Palestinians" outraged by Gingrich remarks
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/pa...h-remarks.html

Originally Posted by Onward James

What was the tilte again? Did you read all of it. How about this question: are you a convert or just an apologist & appeaser?

"Palestinians" outraged by Gingrich remarks
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/12/pa...h-remarks.html

Newt is ridiculous.. People who lived in Syria-Palestine were called Palestinians.... whether they were Arab Christians, Arab Muslims or Arab Jews.

Arabs were living in Palestine and the Levant 2000 years before Islam.

Jerusalem was a whistle stop of the trade route between Dilmun and Babylon and between Egypt and Babylon..

Originally Posted by Margot

Newt is ridiculous.. People who lived in Syria-Palestine were called Palestinians.... whether they were Arab Christians, Arab Muslims or Arab Jews.

Arabs were living in Palestine and the Levant 2000 years before Islam.

Jerusalem was a whistle stop of the trade route between Dilmun and Babylon and between Egypt and Babylon..

Since, you didn't answer my question... I assume then... and the fact that you are limited about history. Yes there were Bedouins, Arabs, but no official borders.

When Israel defeated the Muslims during the embarrassing war that they lost, completely, the Israelis could have evicted all threats, but didn't.

Newt might have questionable traits and history, but he is not obtuse.

Many of the Palestinians can be considered Joradanians, Trans-Jordanians, but they were not all accepted. Better they remain and be a scapegoat.

Are you also aware that there was much land sold to the Jews by Arabs, because ti was pitiful in their mind?

Originally Posted by Onward James

Since, you didn't answer my question... I assume then... and the fact that you are limited about history. Yes there were Bedouins, Arabs, but no official borders.

When Israel defeated the Muslims during the embarrassing war that they lost, completely, the Israelis could have evicted all threats, but didn't.

Newt might have questionable traits and history, but he is not obtuse.

Many of the Palestinians can be considered Joradanians, Trans-Jordanians, but they were not all accepted. Better they remain and be a scapegoat.

Are you also aware that there was much land sold to the Jews by Arabs, because ti was pitiful in their mind?

There were no borders anywhere else in the world either.. Certainly NOT in America.

Do you know the difference between ARABS abd MUSLIMS? There were also settled Arabs.. not just bedouin..

But Arabs have been around for thousands of years before Mohammed was born.

And yes, Newt is obtuse.. He has a BA in modern European History.

The European Jews bought 6% of the land before 1948.

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

Originally Posted by Onward James

http://www.mapsofwar.com/images/EMPIRE17.swf

Your video is inaccurate because borders were extremely fluid over time.. However, Arabs were always part of the scene.. that is apparent because of the archeology, history and because of scripture.

There is so much more to the history of Syria-Palestine, Egypt, the Levant and Arabia than Jewish history.

Originally Posted by Margot

Your video is inaccurate because borders were extremely fluid over time.. However, Arabs were always part of the scene.. that is apparent because of the archeology, history and because of scripture.

There is so much more to the history of Syria-Palestine, Egypt, the Levant and Arabia than Jewish history.

And when did the Arabs become Muslims? What did the Muslims do to the Arab world?

Are you aware that few know that the Mongols conquered the Arab/Muslim worlds and for many decades there was peace. Of course, since the Mongols accepted all that subjugated and their religions, and many accepted Islam much later, because the interpreters were peaceful.

The Palestinians have had so many opportunities for peace and the good life, much better than their mediocrity. The Saudis are, frankly, no better since they rely on oil, rather than creative individualism to compete with porducts and services.

Originally Posted by Onward James

And when did the Arabs become Muslims? What did the Muslims do to the Arab world?

Are you aware that few know that the Mongols conquered the Arab/Muslim worlds and for many decades there was peace. Of course, since the Mongols accepted all that subjugated and their religions, and many accepted Islam much later, because the interpreters were peaceful.

The Palestinians have had so many opportunities for peace and the good life, much better than their mediocrity. The Saudis are, frankly, no better since they rely on oil, rather than creative individualism to compete with porducts and services.

You mean when the Mongols conquered India?

The Arabs from the Arabian Peninsula traded with East Africa, Egypt, the Indus Valley and Babylon.. a thousand years before Islam.

Have you heard of Madain Saleh or Petra or the Marib Dam.... have you ever heard of the Christians of Najran.

The Saudis are doing quite well for themselves... but how would you know that?