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Old 12-29-2007, 08:35 PM
halla halla is offline
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Default palestinians benefit from "occupation"

Important statistics that will make you think

During 20 years of Arab rule Palestinian male life expectancy grew from 42 to 44. During the next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian male life expectancy grew from 44 to 63.

During 20 years of Arab rule Palestinian female life expectancy grew from 45 to 46. During the next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian female life expectancy grew from 46 to 67.

During 20 years of Arab rule Palestinian infant mortality rate decreased from 200 per thousand to 170 per thousand. During the next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian infant mortality rate decreased from 170 per thousand to 60 per thousand.

During 20 years of Arab rule Palestinian cruse death rate decreased from 21 per thousand to 19 per thousand. During next 20 years of Israeli rule Palestinian infant mortality rate decreased from 19 per thousand to 6 per thousand.

Before 1967, when Israel's occupation started, only 113 hospitals had been built in the territories. By the time of 1989 Israel had helped establish more than three times that number to 387.

Before 1967 only 23 Mother & Child Centers had been established. After 1989 about six times as many could be found. (135)

Malaria, which had existed in the territories before 1967 was finally eliminated during the Israeli occupation.

Israel also more than tripled the number of Palestinian teachers and boosted the Palestinian educational system by establishing a number of universities. Among those universities were the College of Scientists (Abu Dis) - est. 1982, the College of Social Welfare (El Bira) - est. 1979, the College of Religion (Beit Hanina) - est. 1978 and the Islamic College in Hebron- est.1971.

This was not the only effect Israeli occupation had on the Palestinian education system and the Palestinian people. Before 1967 the percentage of illiterates on average had been 27.8% among men and among women even higher at 65.1%. By 1983 Israel had helped reduce illiteracy to only 13.5% among men and 38.9% among women.



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Old 12-30-2007, 06:59 AM
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Israel has done diddly squat. Increase in schools came from the UN not Israel.

All the benefits came from outside sources not from Israel.

All Israel has given is the Ghetto system.

Your source is a well known Zionist propaganda site.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleykennedy View Post
Israel has done diddly squat. Increase in schools came from the UN not Israel.

All the benefits came from outside sources not from Israel.

All Israel has given is the Ghetto system.

Your source is a well known Zionist propaganda site.
Bashley should be careful with her use of the word "ALL." It can so easily make a liar of her.
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"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:35 AM
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This from Jeff Jacoby & the Boston Globe:
Source: JEWS AMONG ARABS, ARABS AMONG JEWS, By Jeff Jacoby (Boston Globe), July 18, 2002

From 1970 to 1990 mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than two thirds
Life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000- compared with an average of 68 years for all the countries of the Middle East and North Africa.

Israeli Medical programs reduced the infant mortality rate of 60 per 1000 live births in 1968 to 15 per 1000 in 2000.

In 1967 only 20.5 percent of the population in the West Bank and Gaza had electricity, by 1986 92.8 percent did.

Between 1968 and 1991, the per capita GNP expanded tenfold, from $165 to $1,715. BY 1999, Palestinian's per capita income was nearly double Syria's, more than four times Yemen, and 10 percent higher than Jordan.
===============
Those are easily verifiable facts.
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"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbara1 View Post
This from Jeff Jacoby & the Boston Globe:
Source: JEWS AMONG ARABS, ARABS AMONG JEWS, By Jeff Jacoby (Boston Globe), July 18, 2002

From 1970 to 1990 mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than two thirds

Life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000- compared with an average of 68 years for all the countries of the Middle East and North Africa.
Not due to Israeli medical efforts but is due to Red Cross, UN agencies etc. So If you want to make that claim on behalf of Israel you better try proving the Israeli contribution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbara1 View Post
Israeli Medical programs reduced the infant mortality rate of 60 per 1000 live births in 1968 to 15 per 1000 in 2000.
Again not due to Israeli medical efforts, but due to outside agencies. So If you want to make that claim on behalf of Israel you better try proving the Israeli contribution.

And what was it in 1966? 1968 was a particularly bad year so the comparisons are skewed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbara1 View Post
In 1967 only 20.5 percent of the population in the West Bank and Gaza had electricity, by 1986 92.8 percent did.
20 years later on 28th June 2006 Israeli missiles pound Gaza into new Dark Age in 'collective punishment' As a textbook example of hi-tech precision bombardment it could hardly be improved. Smoke was still rising yesterday from the scorched wreckage of the six transformers at Gaza's only power station, each destroyed by a single missile fired by an Israeli warplane some 10 hours earlier. The Israeli Air Force (IAF) bombed the Gaza electric power station, which constituted the only domestic source of electricity for the Gaza Strip. The IAF destroyed all six transformers of the only domestic power supply plant in the Gaza Strip. This plant provided 43% of Gaza's daily electricity supply (90 of the 210 megawatts). The remaining supply is provided by the Israel Electrical Corporation (IEC). Approximately 700,000 Gazans living in the middle governorate, and in the western and southern parts of Gaza City were initially without electricity. Currently, the Gaza Electrical Distribution Company (GEDCO) is load-sharing the remaining electricity supply from Israel among Gaza's 1.4 million population resulting in intermittent power to households across the Gaza Strip.
Independent
UN Docs
Now try 2007, 20 years later, Back to the dark ages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbara1 View Post
Between 1968 and 1991, the per capita GNP expanded tenfold, from $165 to $1,715. BY 1999, Palestinian's per capita income was nearly double Syria's, more than four times Yemen, and 10 percent higher than Jordan.
Not through Israeli money or ingenuity but through the Palestinians own hard work, amazing how Israeli make claims for other work. So If you want to make that claim on behalf of Israel you better try proving the Israeli contribution.

And why stop at 1991:-
Quote:
Taghreed El-Khodary, New York Times journalist in Gaza and Harvard University Nieman Fellow (2005-2006),

“From what I observed, the closure policies are diverting attention from helping people to focus on a two-state solution, putting their eyes on a bigger horizon, as President Abbas has been trying to achieve. Due to the closure, Israel also is metering specific portions of vital supplies, so prices are increasing for powdered milk, flour, sugar, cigarettes. This in turn encourages those who smuggle through the tunnels – pushing people into those businesses; it’s very counterproductive.

Shockingly, a significant number of people have told me, ‘we want to go back to have Israel in direct control, like it was under occupation, before Oslo.’ They see Fatah and Hamas both as having failed. They remember life before Oslo as easier; it was easier to earn an income, they could work in Israel. They could drive with fewer checkpoints. They now see Oslo as having brought checkpoints, misery.”
http://middleeastprogress.org/2007/1...ct-of-closure/

Israeli policies have been counter productive, the increased closures and roadblocks post Oslo were designed to ensure that the Oslo Accords failed. Israel has not allowed the PA to function as an autonomous authority.
The Palestinian resistance to the Israeli occupation roadblocks and closures of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip took a very nasty turn since the Oslo Accords. Young Palestinians men and more lately women have started to strap themselves with explosives making their way to Israeli Jewish areas that are crowded with Israeli soldiers or civilians and blowing themselves up killing and injuring dozens of people around them.

The closures and roadblocks came before the bombings. Deaf dumb Israelophiles are unable to comprehend these simple facts.
===============
Quote:
Originally Posted by hasbara View Post
Those are easily verifiable facts.
So get verifying those supposed facts since you like to put your sources in. If you want to make those claims on behalf of Israel you better try proving the Israeli contribution.

Why do Israelophiles make claims for things out of Israel’s control? And for things within Israeli control, blame others.



And Hasbara you are supposed to give links to bits you have copy pasted.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:19 PM
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dear sweetness, if israel didn't do anything then just how bad was it under the jordanians and egyptian before '67?? what is certain is that the palestinians didn't do it. what needs to be noted is that under israel some 140 to 160 thousands palestinians worked in israel thus accounting for an enviable economic situation compared with the palestinians moslem arab neighbors.
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:35 PM
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also ashley my sweet, why did the egyptians and the jordanians force the "palestinians" in refugee camps in palestine??
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:09 PM
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Default Hasbaratoo, read first, engage brain then open you mouth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halla View Post
dear sweetness, if Israel didn't do anything then just how bad was it under the Jordanians and Egyptian before '67?? What is certain is that the Palestinians didn't do it. what needs to be noted is that under Israel some 140 to 160 thousands Palestinians worked in Israel thus accounting for an enviable economic situation compared with the Palestinians Muslim Arab neighbours.
Surprisingly enough you have actually answered this yourself. If only you knew how to read.

Quote:
"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, imposed upon them a political and ideological blockade and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them; they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the States of the world did so, and this is regrettable".
- by Abu Mazen, from the article titled: "What We Have Learned and What We Should Do", published in Falastin el Thawra, the official journal of the PLO, of Beirut, in March 1976

There are some glaring mistakes in your assumptions.

1. The Arab League is not nor ever has been a homogeneous entity.

2. Jordan has been on Jordan’s side. Jordan would have loved to expand into the West Bank and went to annex it.

3. Jordan itself has a distinct lack of natural resources, water being the most notable. The Jordanians would have had trouble in assimilating the refugees.

4. For that reason, Jordan pushed the refugees into camps, to keep the refugees as an international problem. At the time Israel would not do her part to aid Jordan and Jordan did not have the international backers.

5. Israel was playing silly b*ggers on the Egyptian border with constant raids. This eventually led to Egypt forming the Palestinian Fedyeen in retaliation. This in turn led to the War of attrition”.

6. Just because Israel’s neighbours are Muslim does not mean that they have to aid Muslim Palestinians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by halla View Post
also ashley my sweet, why did the egyptians and the jordanians force the "palestinians" in refugee camps in palestine??
Quote:
"The Arab states succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity. They did not recognize them as a unified people until the states of the world did so, and this is regrettable."
-- Abu Mazen (Mahmoud Abbas), from the official journal of the PLO, Falastin el-Thawra ("What We Have Learned and What We Should Do"), Beirut, March 1976.

You Hasbaratoo do have a clear inability to understand any form of nationality other than those built up in your own little head based on religious splits.

Quote:
Talks with the United States on the possibility of further progress toward peace with Israel's Arab neighbours did not lead to any new initiative. The main immediate obstacle was Arab insistence on a major role for the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) and Israel's determination to negotiate the future of the West Bank only with Jordan.
American Jewish Yearbook 1977

http://www.ajcarchives.org/AJC_DATA/...l_77__1977.pdf

when the Arab League finally allowed the Palestinians to speak for themselves, Israel carried on with the old policy that had never worked of denying the evidence of their own eyes that the Palestinians were a nationality. Gush Eminem had pushed the Israeli Government into a seriously bad decision of adopting an expansionist policy under the guise of illegal squatters in the West Bank.

Quote:
Review of The Road Map to Nowhere: Israel/Palestine Since 2003 (Paperback) by Tanya Reinhart.

Brilliant study showing how to achieve peace between Israel and the Palestinians, June 14, 2007

By William Podmore

Tanya Reinhart was a professor of philosophy at Tel Aviv University until her recent untimely death. This book examines the last four years of Israel's 40-year illegal occupation of Palestine. She shows how, under the pretence of ending its occupation, the Israeli state has reimposed military control of the occupied territories.

Gaza and the West Bank are a system of prisons, sealed enclaves. The Israeli state controls all movements of goods, services and people. It plans to retain control of these enclaves, from the outside, retaining the army's `freedom of action'.

This is in defiance of the two-thirds of the Israeli people who have consistently backed ending the occupation. 100,000-strong demonstrations have demanded, "Leave the Territories - Save the Country."

Reinhart describes the Palestinians' struggle against the illegal Separation Wall, which the Israeli state wants to be its permanent, unilaterally-decided border. The Wall annexes 40% of the West Bank. If completed, it would rob 400,000 Palestinians of their land and livelihoods.

On 25 June 2003, Palestinian organisations, including Hamas, announced that they would cease fire for three months. The Israeli and US governments immediately responded by rejecting the ceasefire and demanding the `dismantling' of Hamas and other organisations; the Israeli army killed two Palestinians, including a woman. After six weeks' ceasefire, the Israeli state resumed its policy of assassinations, killing 14 Hamas leaders in the first half of August 2003. The EU helped by placing Hamas' political leadership on its list of terrorist organisations.

In February 2004, Sharon unveiled his disengagement plan, which was a feint to cover building the Wall. In September 2005, the British Presidency of the EU demanded that the Palestinian Authority rein in the militants, while allowing Israel full freedom of action, saying, "The Presidency recognises Israel's right to act in self-defence." This is the formula that the USA usually employs to back the Israeli state's assassinations policy and aggressions.

In January 2006, Hamas won the elections. Israel, the EU and the USA at once demanded that it recognise Israel, accept all existing agreements and renounce violence. They did not make similar demands of Israel, yet Israel does not recognise Palestine, respect existing agreements or renounce violence.

There is a road to peace, a simple, unilateral solution available to Israel - end the occupation.
It is well worth the read.
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:01 PM
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is ashley willing to admit that fellow arabs forced the palestinians into refugee camps. does ashley also admit that it wasn't until the israelis took over that quality of life issues such as life expectancy, live births, literacy etc markedly improved?
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Old 12-30-2007, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashley
Quote:
Review of The Road Map to Nowhere: Israel/Palestine Since 2003 (Paperback) by Tanya Reinhart.

Brilliant study showing how to achieve peace between Israel and the Palestinians, June 14, 2007
blah blah blah....

There is a road to peace, a simple, unilateral solution available to Israel - end the occupation.
It is well worth the read.
You mean like the peace achieved when Israel unilaterally pulled out of Gaza?
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