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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleykennedy View Post
Persian, Assyrians, Parsi, yep I am aware, but that was very much the point. The way the west refers to the Middle East as all full of "Arabs", the quote marks was my way of indicating the falseness of that position.



Probably because it was the west that gave their [the Palestinians] land away without asking. And the point I was making is there is no such thing as "Arab Brotherhood".



The question cannot be answered, as it is full of incorrect assumptions in the first place.



Gosh I can feel a bit of condescension coming on.

Because the main financial contributors to the Palestinians is not the US, Israel and the west, it is in fact their Arab Neighbours.

Israel is a negative contributor, that is Israel takes.

Holst Fund and the Palestinian Economic Assistance and Cooperation Exchange.


http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/mna/men...ty//PeaceMemo4


Relief web


http://www.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/...256d660050cf7a


http://ocha-gwapps1.unog.ch/rw/rwb.n...8?OpenDocument

http://www.mideasti.org/summary/pale...-disengagement


World Bank


http://siteresources.worldbank.org/I...eportDec06.pdf


http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...991004,00.html





http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a1d8ca5c-a...0779e2340.html


Other useful web resources


The Economics of Palestine

You see SF the Arab world along with Persians have always been contributing. The US is not even in the top 3 contributors. This is why BB's question was an irrelevancy, it showed complete lack of awareness of facts on the ground. Hence condescension was quite in order.
Was my question condescending? OK, I'll rephrase my question, why don't their neighboring Islamic brothers help in a greater capacity, other than provide weapons and bombs? Keep your barbs coming AK, I know how important it is for you to belittle others, I guess it makes you feel better.

I was trying to find out more on this ongoing nightmare, and I am puzzled, AK, you said the west gave away their land? It sounds more like Great Britain gave the land away, and Israel kicked the crap out of the Arabs, you know, the ones that were fighting with the Palestinians that are separate yet united.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli...inian_conflict

This violence and the heavy cost of World War II led Britain to turn the issue of Palestine to the United Nations. In 1947, the U.N. approved the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Palestinian Arab leaders supported by the Arab League rejected the plan and the next day, a civil war started in Mandatory Palestine. Jewish and Palestinian Arabs fought against each other. Arab foreign volunteers entered Palestine to fight with the Palestinians and when Haganah took the offensive on April 1948, the Palestinian society collapsed and a massive exodus started.

On May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. Five Arab League countries (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq) intervened in the conflict, launching the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. As a result of this war, Israel captured territory that changed its borders, but left Jerusalem a divided city. In the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan, the Gaza Strip from Egypt, and East Jerusalem including the Old City and its holy sites, which Israel annexed and reunited with the Western neighborhoods of Jerusalem. The status of the city as Israel's capital and the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were to remain sources of bitter conflict.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 01-26-2008, 03:54 PM
ashleykennedy ashleykennedy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
Was my question condescending? OK, I'll rephrase my question, why don't their neighboring Islamic brothers help in a greater capacity, other than provide weapons and bombs? Keep your barbs coming AK, I know how important it is for you to belittle others, I guess it makes you feel better.
Two points

1. The Palestinians are not all Muslim.

2. And the biggest donors of aid is Iran and Saudi Arabia. That is financial aid through the offices of the Central Bank. Anything for the supply of military aid to the Palestinian armed forces is over and above the financial aid for projects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
I was trying to find out more on this ongoing nightmare, and I am puzzled, AK, you said the west gave away their land? It sounds more like Great Britain gave the land away, and Israel kicked the crap out of the Arabs, you know, the ones that were fighting with the Palestinians that are separate yet united.
Due to the national interests of the countries in the region the Palestinians have been left to find their own way. As previously stated there is no such thing an "Arab Brotherhood".



Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
This violence and the heavy cost of World War II led Britain to turn the issue of Palestine to the United Nations.
The violence of the Jewish agency militias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
In 1947, the U.N. approved the partition of the British Mandate of Palestine into two states, one Jewish and one Arab. Palestinian Arab leaders supported by the Arab League rejected the plan and the next day,
It is a bit of a misnomer to say that the Jewish agency accepted the Partition plan. The Jewish agency only accepted the unanimous reports and rejected the majority report. The majority report just so happened to be the partition plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
a civil war started in Mandatory Palestine. Jewish and Palestinian Arabs fought against each other. Arab foreign volunteers entered Palestine to fight with the Palestinians and when Haganah took the offensive on April 1948, the Palestinian society collapsed and a massive exodus started.
The civil war had started in early 1947 with the build up of Irgun and Lehi attacks. The Jewish agency then held the Irgun and Lehi back during the discussions of the UN on the formation of Palestine post mandate, the Irgun Lehi, Haganah and Palmach operations resumed shortly after the Partition resolution being passed. The Lehi rejected the Partition plan outright.



Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
On May 14, 1948, Israel declared its independence. Five Arab League countries (Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Transjordan and Iraq) intervened in the conflict, launching the 1948 Arab-Israeli War.
After:-

29th November 1947

The United Nations votes to partition of Palestine into two sovereign states - one Arab, one Jewish. Under this plan Jerusalem would be internationalised. The transition from British rule would occur on Oct. 1, 1948.

 UN Res 181

December 2-5, 1947 Jerusalem riots The Arab Higher Committee declared a strike and public protest of the vote. Arabs marching to Zion Square on December 2 were stopped by the British, and the Arabs instead turned towards the commercial center of the City, burning many buildings and shops. Violence continued for two more days, with Arab mobs attacking a number of Jewish neighbourhoods. 70 Jews and 50 Arabs are killed.



December 1947 two villages in the central plain -- Deir Ayyub (Final ethnic cleansing by the Giv'ati and Sheva' (Seventh) brigades on March 6, 1948 renamed Mevo Choron) and Beit Affa (Final ethnic cleansing Operation Barak (lightening) Giv'ati Brigade's Second Battalion January 10, 194 -- were raided, and their panicked Palestinian inhabitants fled. Jewish leaders gave the order to drive out as many Palestinians as possible on March 10, 1948. The terror campaign ended six months later.


http://www.palestineremembered.com/al-Ramla/Dayr-Ayyub/


http://www.palestineremembered.com/Gaza/Bayt-'Affa/index.html


December 12 Bus bombings in Haifa and Ramla, by Jewish Militias


December 12, al-Tira an Irgun operation. Terrorist raid by Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) raided the village of al-Tira in which there were 13 killed and 10 wounded villagers.


http://www.palestineremembered.com/Haifa/al-Tira/


December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.



13 December 1947: Irgun also burns down 100 Arab homes in Jaffa



December 18, al-Khisas a Palmach operation. took place in al-Khisas near to the Syrian border and was carried out by Haganah militants, possibly from Palmach. Palmach claim it was in retaliation for casualties suffered in Safad and for the murder of a Jewish citizen by an Arab citizen near al-Khisas. Ten Palestinians were killed, five of them children. Five were wounded.

December 29th 1947: Bomb thrown from a taxi at the Damascus Gate café in Jerusalem by Irgun terrorists two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured.
December 30, Haifa Oil Refinery Irgun attack on labourers waiting at the Haifa oil refinery gate. Grenade thrown into crowd of Arab Dock workers exploded killing 6 workers and wounding 42. Arab workers riot; in the ensuing violence 39 Jews are killed


http://jic.tau.ac.il/Default/Scripti...Mode=HTML&GZ=T






Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
As a result of this war, Israel captured territory that changed its borders,
Actually Israel didn't. Israel has never claimed any boundary. The only boundary that Israel has ever acknowledged was the 1947 Partition boundary when Audrey Eban replied to a letter from the UN of the 18th May 1948. The reply was recieved on the 22nd May.

22nd May 1948: Israel’s letter to UN questions on Israeli invasion of Arab Areas.



http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/b4085a930e0529c98025649d00410973!OpenDocument]UN Docs[/url]


The UN letter was about the Israeli invasion of the Arab Partition area? Not quite the version that wiki gives, but that's wiki for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
but left Jerusalem a divided city.
Officially an International trusteeship. Israel invaded Jerusalem first followed a few days later by the Jordanian forces.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoBilly View Post
In the Six-Day War in 1967, Israel captured the West Bank from Jordan, the Gaza Strip from Egypt, and East Jerusalem including the Old City and its holy sites, which Israel annexed and reunited with the Western neighborhoods of Jerusalem. The status of the city as Israel's capital and the occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were to remain sources of bitter conflict.
Officially the UN is still supposed to have a trusteeship of Jerusalem, even the US does not acknowledge Jerusalem as Israel's capital. As far as the US is concerned Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel. Emphasising the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. War doesn't change the borders as the last borders acknowledged by Israel were the 1947 partition plan borders; Israel have to negotiate any minor border changes. The pre 67 line was a cease fire line not a border.

From 1920 the case of Palestine started to get convoluted, if you want to know more visit the ME board sometime. Enjoy.
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Old 01-26-2008, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleykennedy View Post
Persian, Assyrians, Parsi, yep I am aware, but that was very much the point. The way the west refers to the Middle East as all full of "Arabs", the quote marks was my way of indicating the falseness of that position.
Wow, you're so smoothe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak
Probably because it was the west that gave their [the Palestinians] land away without asking. And the point I was making is there is no such thing as "Arab Brotherhood".
You can say that again. On September 6, 1948, Emile Ghoury, secretary of the Palestinian Arab Higher Committee, was quoted in an interview with the Beirut Telegraph as saying,
Quote:
"The fact that there are these refugees is the direct consequence of the act of the Arab states in opposing partition and the Jewish state. The Arab states agree upon this policy unanimously and they must share in the solution of the problem."
A few months later on February 19,1949, the Jordanian daily newspaper Falastin reported,
Quote:
"The Arab state which had encouraged the Palestinian Arabs to leave their homes temporarily in order to be out of the way for the Arab invasion armies, have failed to keep their promise to help these refugees."
It appears as though these Palestinians were duped into leaving their homes so they wouldn't end up as colateral casualties when Israel was attacked in the ensuing war. When Israel emerged the victor, they didn't get their homes back. With friends like these, who needs enemies? Still, there's more.

The Beirut Muslim weekly Kul-Sahy on August 19, 1951 reported,
Quote:
"Who brought the Palestinians to Lebanon as refugees, suffering now from the malign attitude of newspapers and communal leaders, who have neither honor nor conscience? Who brought them over in dire straits and penniless, after they lost their honor? The Arab states and Lebanon amongst them, did it."
The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom on October 12, 1963 reported
Quote:
"The 15th May, 1948 arrived... On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."


The Jordanian daily newspaper Al Urdun on April 9, 1953 reported,
Quote:
"For the flight and fall of the other villages it is our leaders who are responsible because of their dissemination of rumose exaggerating Jewish crimes and describing them as atrocities in order to inflame the Arabs... By spreading rumors of Jewish atrocities, killings of women and children, etc., they instilled fear and terror in the hearts of the Arabs in Palestine, until they fled leaving their homes and properties to the enemy."
And you, ashleykennedy, have bought into that lie hook, line, and sinker.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ak
The question cannot be answered, as it is full of incorrect assumptions in the first place.
Speaking of incorrect assumptions...
  • Most of the surrounding Arab nations have also failed to absorb the "refugees" into their under-populated, wealthy nations. It appears as though the only thing in their eyes that is almost as bad as a Jew is a Palestinian.
  • Following World War II, there were approximately 100 million refugees around the world. The Palestinian Arab group is the only one in the world not absorbed or integrated into their own people's lands.
  • A bill was introduced in Lebanon's Parliament in 2002 which denied Pelestinian-Arabs the right to own property. Those who owned property would not be able to give it to their children.
These are prime examples that, while Israel has made numerous concessions to accommodate the Palestinians-- offering them ninety-five percent of the West Bank in 1999 as part of the peace plan--- other Arab nations continue to exploit the misery and poverty of the Palestinian people in order to justify their belligerent opposition to Israel and the Jewish people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak
Gosh I can feel a bit of condescension coming on.
Get used to it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak
Because the main financial contributors to the Palestinians is not the US, Israel and the west, it is in fact their Arab Neighbours.

Israel is a negative contributor, that is Israel takes.

Holst Fund and the Palestinian Economic Assistance and Cooperation Exchange.


http://lnweb18.worldbank.org/mna/men...ty//PeaceMemo4
That link doesn't work.

America gives billions of dollars each year to the Palestinians and has repeatedly attempted to broker "peace" deals which have included provisions for a Palestinian state.
  • Arabs who live in Israel are treated better and have more political, religious and economic freedoms than most Arab citizens in any of the other Arab states-- all of which represent a broad spectrum of police states.
  • Israel is the largest employer of Palestinians in the world. The approximately one million Arabs living in Israel can practice their own religion (unlike Jews living in Arab countries), can vote in Israeli elections and serve in Israel's legislative body the Knesset.
  • Arab women living in Israel are granted greater liberty and freedom than women living in Arab countries-- where they're treated as men's property and have few, if any, individual liberties.
Yet, ashley kennedy prattles on and on about the evil Zionist state of Israel as though he were the ambassador of Palestine railing against the singular cause of Palestinian atrocity. The sad reality is, the only thing worse than dying Palestinians at the hands of Israel is dying Palestinians at the hands of their Arabian "brothers."
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Old 01-26-2008, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SenaxFlatulus View Post
America gives billions of dollars each year to the Palestinians and has repeatedly attempted to broker "peace" deals which have included provisions for a Palestinian state.
Just a note: We actually give about $200 million a year.
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Old 01-26-2008, 04:46 PM
ashleykennedy ashleykennedy is offline
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Erskine Childers

http://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/ErskinChilders.html



Benny Morris found no evidence of that the Arab High Command orders for the Palestinians to evacuate. See:-


Benny Morris “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee problem Revisited” Cambridge University Press 2004 ISBN 0-512-00967-7

Sorry the url for the E copy of the book has the dreaded smiley combo in the middle.



Benny Morris Righteous Victims: A History of..."><font color=Righteous Victims: A History of..." />Righteous Victims: A History of... http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m...s-victims.html


Most of the quotes from 1947 are spurious. The Israeli forces used quite a lot of Black propaganda which is recorded in the IDF archives. I don't have access to that but Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappe did, they also have better access to original sources so I tend to take their version of events as nearer the mark than yours SF. Sorry SF but the internet is a minefield of "counter-knowledge". It looks like you've been suckered SF.


As to the offer of 95% the offer never got made and had little thing like the Jordan bank was to be given to Israel in a long lease with the rest carved up into Bantustan Ghettos by the intersection of squatter only roads with Israel administering all Palestinian National land (that way Israel could place more squatters quite legally in the West Bank). So your 95% ends up as 40% non contiguous with no national security and Israel still stealing water. That was no offer it was a blatant Israeli land grab.


As to the World bank link go to the World bank Home page:-



http://www.worldbank.org/

Then click on "countries" then scroll down to West Bank and Gaza Strip. click on for the report.
Last edited by ashleykennedy; 01-26-2008 at 04:50 PM.
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Old 01-26-2008, 05:13 PM
ashleykennedy ashleykennedy is offline
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Just a note: We actually give about $200 million a year.
Raytri that is not $200 million per year but $200 millions over several years as in from Oct 2000 to Sept 2004. The aid arrived mainly after mile stones such as the Oslo accords and Wye River Plantation agreements.

Quote:
West Bank & Gaza Program Budget (1993-2004)

USAID funding for the West Bank and Gaza between 1993 and 2004 totaled approximately $1.5 billion.
Following the signing of the Oslo Accords in September 1993, the U.S. government provided $375 million between 1993 and 1998 through USAID to implement a development program in the West Bank and Gaza.
In 1999, USAID West Bank & Gaza's budget was $80 million. In 2000 its level increased to over $118 million. In 2000, the Congress approved an additional $400 million to add to the USAID West Bank and Gaza program to facilitate implementation of the Wye River Accords.
In 2001, USAID West Bank/Gaza's program budget was $114 million. In 2002 and 2003, USAID received $75 million from Congress for its program. In addition, in May of 2003, the Congress approved an additional $50 Million of supplemental funds. These funds went directly toward improving Palestinian lives: rebuilding infrastructure, creating jobs, and reinvigorating the Palestinian economy.
Since October 2000, more than $200 million has been directed toward emergency and humanitarian assistance, which includes providing immediate aid in the areas of water, health, food, and employment, and for the repair of basic municipal infrastructure.
Using the Palestinian Authority Ministry of Planning comparative data, the U.S. is the largest bilateral donor in the West Bank and Gaza.


http://www.usaid.gov/wbg/budget.htm

The Aid came to a bit of an abrupt halt after the democratically elected Hamas Government met with Israeli and US disapproval.
Last edited by ashleykennedy; 01-26-2008 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-26-2008, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleykennedy View Post
Erskine Childers

http://www.users.cloud9.net/~recross/israel-watch/ErskinChilders.html



Benny Morris found no evidence of that the Arab High Command orders for the Palestinians to evacuate. See:-
Benny Morris likewise showed no proof that Israel seized that property or "stole" it as claimed. All you've managed to prove is that you prefer your own flavor of propaganda over mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ak
Benny Morris “The Birth of the Palestinian Refugee problem Revisited” Cambridge University Press 2004 ISBN 0-512-00967-7

Sorry the url for the E copy of the book has the dreaded smiley combo in the middle.



Benny Morris Righteous Victims: A History of the Zionist Arab conflict 1881-2001.
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/m...s-victims.html


Most of the quotes from 1947 are spurious. The Israeli forces used quite a lot of Black propaganda which is recorded in the IDF archives. I don't have access to that but Benny Morris, Avi Shlaim and Ilan Pappe did, they also have better access to original sources so I tend to take their version of events as nearer the mark than yours SF. Sorry SF but the internet is a minefield of "counter-knowledge". It looks like you've been suckered SF.
Yet another broken link to nowhere. Perhaps you should proof your submissions with the preview button first. (Just a suggestion)

Let's assume what you say is true. Israel "stole" their land. What's your evidence. I mean, where's the evidence that I can review? I hope you don't mind my not taking Benny's word for it just because you vouch for him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ak
As to the offer of 95% the offer never got made and had little thing like the Jordan bank was to be given to Israel in a long lease with the rest carved up into Bantustan Ghettos by the intersection of squatter only roads with Israel administering all Palestinian National land (that way Israel could place more squatters quite legally in the West Bank). So your 95% ends up as 40% non contiguous with no national security and Israel still stealing water. That was no offer it was a blatant Israeli land grab.
Even if your biased left-leaning version of reality is actually true, which I highly doubt, it's definitely better than what they have now... which is nothing. I honestly believe the Palestinians want what they're getting. Why else would they vote Hamas in during their last elections? Surely they're happy now... right?
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Old 01-26-2008, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by ashleykennedy View Post
The Aid came to a bit of an abrupt halt after the democratically elected Hamas Government met with Israeli and US disapproval.
No politician Democrat or Republican in their right mind would use American taxpayer money to support a government run by terrorist organizations. I'd be willing to bet it was a unanymous agreement to stop payments to the Palestinians.

The U.S. rightly cut off aid to the Palestinian government because Hamas was elected by its people. Hamas, in case you haven't heard, is a terrorist organization.

We tend to frown on that.
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashleykennedy View Post
Two points

1. The Palestinians are not all Muslim.

2. And the biggest donors of aid is Iran and Saudi Arabia. That is financial aid through the offices of the Central Bank. Anything for the supply of military aid to the Palestinian armed forces is over and above the financial aid for projects.



Due to the national interests of the countries in the region the Palestinians have been left to find their own way. As previously stated there is no such thing an "Arab Brotherhood".





The violence of the Jewish agency militias.



It is a bit of a misnomer to say that the Jewish agency accepted the Partition plan. The Jewish agency only accepted the unanimous reports and rejected the majority report. The majority report just so happened to be the partition plan.



The civil war had started in early 1947 with the build up of Irgun and Lehi attacks. The Jewish agency then held the Irgun and Lehi back during the discussions of the UN on the formation of Palestine post mandate, the Irgun Lehi, Haganah and Palmach operations resumed shortly after the Partition resolution being passed. The Lehi rejected the Partition plan outright.





After:-

29th November 1947

The United Nations votes to partition of Palestine into two sovereign states - one Arab, one Jewish. Under this plan Jerusalem would be internationalised. The transition from British rule would occur on Oct. 1, 1948.

 UN Res 181

December 2-5, 1947 Jerusalem riots The Arab Higher Committee declared a strike and public protest of the vote. Arabs marching to Zion Square on December 2 were stopped by the British, and the Arabs instead turned towards the commercial center of the City, burning many buildings and shops. Violence continued for two more days, with Arab mobs attacking a number of Jewish neighbourhoods. 70 Jews and 50 Arabs are killed.



December 1947 two villages in the central plain -- Deir Ayyub (Final ethnic cleansing by the Giv'ati and Sheva' (Seventh) brigades on March 6, 1948 renamed Mevo Choron) and Beit Affa (Final ethnic cleansing Operation Barak (lightening) Giv'ati Brigade's Second Battalion January 10, 194 -- were raided, and their panicked Palestinian inhabitants fled. Jewish leaders gave the order to drive out as many Palestinians as possible on March 10, 1948. The terror campaign ended six months later.


http://www.palestineremembered.com/al-Ramla/Dayr-Ayyub/


http://www.palestineremembered.com/Gaza/Bayt-'Affa/index.html


December 12 Bus bombings in Haifa and Ramla, by Jewish Militias


December 12, al-Tira an Irgun operation. Terrorist raid by Irgun Zvai Leumi (IZL) raided the village of al-Tira in which there were 13 killed and 10 wounded villagers.


http://www.palestineremembered.com/Haifa/al-Tira/


December 13,1947. Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.



13 December 1947: Irgun also burns down 100 Arab homes in Jaffa



December 18, al-Khisas a Palmach operation. took place in al-Khisas near to the Syrian border and was carried out by Haganah militants, possibly from Palmach. Palmach claim it was in retaliation for casualties suffered in Safad and for the murder of a Jewish citizen by an Arab citizen near al-Khisas. Ten Palestinians were killed, five of them children. Five were wounded.

December 29th 1947: Bomb thrown from a taxi at the Damascus Gate café in Jerusalem by Irgun terrorists two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured.
December 30, Haifa Oil Refinery Irgun attack on labourers waiting at the Haifa oil refinery gate. Grenade thrown into crowd of Arab Dock workers exploded killing 6 workers and wounding 42. Arab workers riot; in the ensuing violence 39 Jews are killed


http://jic.tau.ac.il/Default/Scripti...Mode=HTML&GZ=T






Actually Israel didn't. Israel has never claimed any boundary. The only boundary that Israel has ever acknowledged was the 1947 Partition boundary when Audrey Eban replied to a letter from the UN of the 18th May 1948. The reply was recieved on the 22nd May.

22nd May 1948: Israel’s letter to UN questions on Israeli invasion of Arab Areas.



http://domino.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/eed216406b50bf6485256ce10072f637/b4085a930e0529c98025649d00410973!OpenDocument]UN Docs[/url]


The UN letter was about the Israeli invasion of the Arab Partition area? Not quite the version that wiki gives, but that's wiki for you.



Officially an International trusteeship. Israel invaded Jerusalem first followed a few days later by the Jordanian forces.




Officially the UN is still supposed to have a trusteeship of Jerusalem, even the US does not acknowledge Jerusalem as Israel's capital. As far as the US is concerned Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel. Emphasising the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war. War doesn't change the borders as the last borders acknowledged by Israel were the 1947 partition plan borders; Israel have to negotiate any minor border changes. The pre 67 line was a cease fire line not a border.

From 1920 the case of Palestine started to get convoluted, if you want to know more visit the ME board sometime. Enjoy.
Without trying to be condescending, why is your post true and all the experts that post on Wiki false? You obviously know something they don't, why don't you edit Wiki?
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Old 01-27-2008, 03:49 AM
ashleykennedy ashleykennedy is offline
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Originally Posted by SenaxFlatulus View Post
Benny Morris likewise showed no proof that Israel seized that property or "stole" it as claimed. All you've managed to prove is that you prefer your own flavor of propaganda over mine.
Benny Morris is so far Right Wing that he makes you, SF look like a raving communist. I actually prefer facts, it makes it easier to spot the propaganda. Th