hi
(i'm sorry if there is a spelling mistakes)
2 Day's ago, israel was attack by hamas.
it was in Dimona (name of place). one woman kiiled, shock in israel.
israel respond and kiiled 7 hamas terrorist. today hamas attacking Sederot and Sent 19 missiles across the city.
I seeing NOW thet pepole say thet "foke israel", israel war crrime " and bla bla bla.
BUT!
WE gave them gun to fight in terror, and they use it for terror (in oslo)
WE GIVING to them Medicine, electricity and fuel.
BUT they are, Send on us missiles, explode in restaurants.
propitious terror and users in the children for terror.
I know that sometims israel hert innocent and all arme in the world make
mistake (like usa and iraq, i don't think that they wanted to kiil innocent)
we are know that Palestinian need A state but they wiil not have Responsibility and control on the state (look gaza, they kiil themselves)
when we have sure that they wiil have the responsibility that we will be safe with state for them, we will be happy to live them alone.
The writer is 23 old, life in israel, sarve in the IDF.

Welcome Topaz.

I see English is not your first language, but you still get your point across nicely. I noticed that Israel Hasbara Committee headlines today's events:

Rocket Hits Playground Wounding Children in Sderot

notice how Ha'aretz headlines the same story:

Six people hurt in Qassam rocket barrage on Sderot

Isn't it interesting that Ha'aretz chooses not to mention the children? You can be sure if it were Palestinian children that were hurt that it would be headlines in AP, AFP, al-Reuters, etc.! Israel's liberal paper can't bring itself to acknowledge the truth!

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"The courageous over the infidels, make war for Allah and are not afraid... This is the depiction of the army of Allah that will come at Allah's decree, from here or from there, to liberate these lands from the defilement of the Jews, for Allah was angry with them in his book and called them once 'monkeys,' once 'swine,' and once 'donkeys.'" (Palestinian TV, March 30, 2001)

Welcome.
What kind of state is the Israeli government willing to give the Palestinian people?
Why haven't there been any meaningful negotiations for such a long time?
Why hasn't Hamas been a part of the meaningless negotiations in the last few months?
Why has the Israeli government decided (time and time again) to collectively punish the Palestinians living in the Gaza strip?

I know that the previous talks (2000-2001) ended with no agreement, and I know that it's not ONLY the Israeli governments fault, and that there are two sides to the story. Do you think that the Palestinian leaders will agree to something that doesn't include a part of Jerusalem or the right of return?

As far as the initial post and the violence, all I can say is that it's a shame that the "Holy Land" has been a god forsaken place for such a long time.
This is nothing new, just news.
Peace.

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I sorry thet a didn't respons earlier becouse the time diffrent (when you sleep a week up....)
The israeli government will agree to Palestinian state that be unarmed. israel wiil support that state (Security and financial) and now we help to th palestiniane in the West Bank becouse now they know that if you help to israel israel will help you.

The problem is hamas. he dosn't want negotiation with israel becouse he sey that israel dont have the right to exist.
the Israeli government decided to punishd gaza strip becouse If inhabitants of avenue of life of fear, how you are a lookout that will not require that also gazans they will suffer like that we? If New York, Wshigton, New Jersey, Miami and Los Angeles were under an attack of missiles from side Mexico, United States was not also punishes Mexico? We are life in Israel not on account of the religion, but/rather on account of we rearranged, we worked for the right that will be us state, after two Thousand year of chastiseds, abuses, anathema and holocaust. We don't have different country that their badge on us.

Isn't that up to the Palestinians themselves, and not Israel?

Why has Hamas been firing Qassam's for the last two years? It would seem before dialogue can take place, the shooting would have to stop first.

Why hasn't Hamas recognized Israel's right to exist? How can they negotiate with an entity they don't even recognize as existing?

Why have the Palestinians been killing Israeli's for the last sixty years... collectively?

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125177

This adds an interesting twist to the Dimona attacks and the idea of negotiations.

Bobcat1 – We can go around in circles with questions all day, but I’m not one to take sides on this issue, so don’t expect me to defend either side. What I’m trying to point out is that there are two sides to this story (like many other stories), which I had mentioned in my first post.

I know that most people look at the history of this conflict and perhaps the history of the “Holy Land” in general, and ask themselves questions about Hammas and their actions. The way I look at it, at least in terms of the current situation is how can Hammas get enough votes to run the PNA? What were the conditions that led the Palestinian people to vote Hammas into power?

As an interesting anecdote, Ehud Barrack (current secretary of defence, former PM and former head of the IDF) has said that if he were a Palestinian, he would be a part of the resistance. I know that he would, and all it really takes to come to that conclusion is to view things in a non-biased (different perspective) type of way.

In so many words: Not at all.

The Palestinian people are living in a collection of refugee camps and the history of the negotiations shows us that their leaders didn’t receive what they wanted. The Israelis are the “Giving” side in the negotiations, and what they are willing to give is not enough for the Palestinian leaders.

In other words, in any negotiation there are two sides, and the Israelis have to figure out what they are willing to give in order to reach a peaceful resolution. That in itself explains part of the reality of this conflict, the Palestinian people are living in horrible conditions and they want what was lawfully given to them by the UN in 1948. We all know that that’s not going to happen, so what are they going to get? Is it 50%, 70%, 20% - How much is enough? Read about the negotiations (2000-2001) and see where the problematic points were.

Please have a look at the 1967 borders, and then have a look at the 1948 borders. Ask yourself what has really been going on in the last 60 years before you simply consider this a one-sided violent conflict (Hint: In reality there are additional sides, not only the two).

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There comes a time when you simply have to take sides. I know it's popular nowadays to dance in the middle ground and feel good about yourself, when it comes to the Mid-East. But, the fact of the matter is, there really is no middle ground to take here. The Palestinian Authority, as well as most of the arab states of the region, do not want peace with Israel. Since 1948, the arab ruling factions of the region have encouraged this impasse, have intentionally placed Israel in the political position with Palestine, in order to paint Israel as the bully and the occupier. This, in itself, is a lie. The arabs of the Middle East want to destroy Israel as a political entity, because they view its existence as an affront to Islam. This is why, for all the concessions Israel was willing to give following the Arab-Israeli War, following the Six Day War, and the Camp David Accords, the arab leadership rejected Israel's offers outright and upheld the status quo.

I'm unfamiliar with this anecdote, but I'll look it up. I'm sure you are taking Barrack's words out of context.

You are aware, they are in refugee camps because Jordan refused to assimilate these people into their own country after invading Israel in the Six Day War, aren't you?

What do the Palestinian leaders want? The rallying cry of both Hamas and Fatah is the slogan, "from the river to the sea," meaning that Palestine, from the River Jordan to the Mediterranian Sea should be the borders of a Palestinian state. Even Abbas, who is called a Palestinian moderate, doesn't renounce this arab vision of a future Palestinian state. So, what do they ask that Israel finds hard to give? The Right of Return. The Palestinians want every single Palestinian, for several generations back, who ever owned land in Israel to be able to return to that land, displacing Israeli's who live there now? Why would they ask for such an insane thing? Primarily to change the demography of Israel's democratic populace and to make Israel another Muslim nation through popular appeal. In other words, if they can't do it with guns, then they'll do it with bodies.

Israel want something too, though. They want peace. They want the right not to be blown up by fanatics on buses and in marketplaces. They want the right not to have Qassam missiles launched into their neighborhoods. Is this beyond the power of the Palestinians to give? Are you so blind that this simple ineluctable fact?

Those borders given to them in 1946, before the first Mid-East war, were offered back to them by the Israeli's, after their victory, in return for a pledge for ceasefire. The offer was made again after the Six Day War. And the arab nations of the region, one and all, refused this offer.

Israel has shown an extreme willingness to surrender land, for peace. The arabs of the region, in turn, have shown an extreme inclination to take that land and use it as a launching point to attack Israeli citizens.

And you ask yourself, what does Israel gain with the occupation? Is there some hidden resource on the West Bank that helps their economy? Or do you honestly believe the Israeli government is seeking to extend its empire to the Jordan River? It should be obvious, even to the most myopic of political savants, that Israel gains only one thing from the occupation: namely, the security of its own citizens. And this is the one thing that the Palestinians refuse to offer back to Israel in any senario.

Topaz500 – Don't worry about the delayed response, my first response was made in the airport in Singapore, on my way to Australia, so who knows what time it is wherever?!

There are too many weapons in the world to believe that that could happen, not to mention the “Home-made” weapons that individuals can build if they wanted to. With that said, how is the Palestinian government supposed to help Israel fight terrorism with an unarmed police? In all previous negotiations the Israeli government has asked (mainly) for better security measures in the PNA, I’m pretty sure they won’t be able to deliver on that agreement under those conditions.

How are the people in the West Bank helping Israel? How is Israel helping them?
They are living in a (so-called) state that on a map looks more like a piece of Swiss-cheese than a country, and the Wall that was recently built has caged and diced the Palestinian territories in ways that are difficult for us to comprehend without living in that type of condition for a single day.

You don’t have to answer this question, but what did you do in the IDF? Did you see the way the “Ordinary” Palestinian lives his/her life? How hard is it for them to move freely between Palestinian cities?

I understand that Hammas is a problematic entity, but have you stopped for a moment to consider how Hammas could win the elections in 2006? Could it be because the Palestinian people are desperate and unsatisfied with their previous leaders? Do you really think that the majority of over 3.5 Million people are fundamentally pro-violence towards Israel? If they really are “Why are they?”

Please don’t compare the 20,000 people living in Sderot to one of largest cities in the US and use that to justify the Israeli governments actions. I’m very sorry for the people who live in Sderot, but their situation has no effect on the majority of Israelis. When was the last time you went to a bar in Tel-Aviv? When was the last time a 23 year old boy from Gaza (population 1,500,000) went to a party like the one you and your friends went to last Friday (or could have gone to)?

I’m talking about a reasonable response. The truth is that Qassam rockets have killed “Only” 7 people throughout all of the years that they have been in use, how many Palestinian civilians were killed in the last 2 months?

I understand that the Jewish people have no other place to call home, but since 1967 the Palestinian territories (given to them in 1948, after WW2) have been under the Israeli governments authority. The Israeli government (and population) is full of right-wing extremists and other "Anti-compromise" politicians (at least 50 Knesset members from 5 parties) who don’t really care about the Palestinian people and their basic needs (or Human Rights), and they obviously have a lot of influence when it comes to negotiating and the negotiation terms with the Palestinian leaders. Even a party like Kadima, who claims they are a centrist party, have many members who have rightward tendencies, not to mention the fact that any moderate Israeli politician has a somewhat “Right” oriented point of view when it comes to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.

Think about the Israeli government, the current one and for the past 25 years. There hasn’t been a single Israeli Prime Minister (and/or government) that has finished his term without going to re-elections (not since Yitzhak Shamir in 1992). Rabin was assassinated for supposedly giving the Palestinians too much, and in reality, the Palestinian violence towards Israel has never really stopped (not since the first Intifada in 1980).

Keeping the Palestinian people caged behind fences & walls won’t solve the problem, it will only make life more comfortable for Israelis who will continue to ignore the problem (and get frustrated every so often because of a “Successful” terrorist attack). Young Israelis will continue to work and save money for their trip to India, Thailand and South America, while young Palestinians will continue to get radicalized due to their hopeless living conditions.

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I will be on the side that wants meaningful negotiations to take place, both sides are simply too bloody for my own personal taste. I want the common people on both sides to have what most people on the Israeli side have, a generally comfortable way to live their life.

If you can't find it anywhere, read about the Israeli "Fighters for the Freedom of Israel" (Lehi) and "Etzel" (for some reason called Irgun in English) pre-1948, they will paint the same kind of picture with other former Israeli leaders.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_%28group%29

You can trust me about the Barrack quote, but you don't have to.
(I've lived in Israel long enough, and speak Hebrew well enough to know what I heard and the context)

And Egypt as well (Gaza Strip).
The Palestinian people have been screwed over by everybody, hence the "More than two sides" point that I'd mentioned. What next? How long can people live in these conditions without getting upset?

I think you know what they want (you pointed out a few of the issues further down), the question is what can (or will) they get?

Do you know the counter Jewish slogan about the land given to them from god?

Why do extreme Jews build homes in Occupied land? Why do such an insane thing if you will have to return it at some point?

1. This is an issue that Palestinian leaders won't be able to deliver the day after the papers are signed. Why do you think that is?

2. Sderot has under 20,000 people living in it, Gaza has about 1.5 million. The effects of the Qassam rockets are 7 dead over the years... Would you like to compare body counts?

3. Terrorism is a result of radicalization. The question is how do you prevent people from being radicalized? I honestly don't think that the answer involves caging them behind walls & fences in conditions that you and I can't really understand. Think: Perspective.

Yes, more than one side. I'd like to see the source you've been looking at, but either way: Egypt, Jordan, and Syria are to blame for the current situation as well, how does this help us in the year of 2008? There is an agreement with Jordan & Egypt, and the Palestinian people (3.5 million of them) are stuck in the middle of it all.

We didn't talk about Jerusalem, but the map of the "Holy Land" is always changing.
Compare between the 3 maps please: 1948 - 1967 - 1994/2001 negotiations.

I'd touched this issue in my reply to Topaz... No need to double write it...
Peace.

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