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Old 03-25-2008, 01:26 PM
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i.beletesri i.beletesri is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner: "Jews on the other hand are known since ancient times to be dishonest"
;468774
Strange, because I remember to have heard that the Egyptians still celebrate the victory against Israel and the reparations they became for ending the war they could have won without US intervention!
Do they celebrate their own propaganda?
LOL Skeptikos .
You show a COMPLETE LACK of Knowledge on Everything you speak of.
This isn't even high-end afficionado stuff- but routine.

The Arabs are so Humilated by defeat they even celebrated that they attempted to fight!
yes that's exactly what they did.. don't you have access to Google.. beside Not knowing ANYthing?

Quote:
WIKI 1973

The cease-fire and immediate aftermath

Egypt's trapped Third Army


When the cease fire came into effect, Israel had lost territory on the east side of the Suez Canal to Egypt (shown in red) but gained territory west of the canal and in the Golan Heights (shown in green).The Security Council of the United Nations passed (14-0) Resolution 338 calling for a cease-fire, largely negotiated between the U.S. and Soviet Union, on October 22. It called upon "all parties to the present fighting" to "terminate all military activity immediately." It came into effect 12 hours later at 6:52 p.m. Israeli time.[34] Because it went into effect after darkness, it was impossible for satellite surveillance to determine where the front lines were when the fighting was supposed to stop.[35] Prior to the ceasefire taking effect, U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger had told Israeli Prime Minister Golda Meir, "You won't get violent protests from Washington if something happens during the night, while I'm flying. Nothing can happen in Washington until noon tomorrow."[36]

When the cease-fire began, the Israeli forces were just a few hundred meters short of their goal—the last road linking Cairo and Suez.
During the night, the Egyptians violated the cease-fire in a number of locations, destroying nine Israeli tanks. In response, David Elazar requested permission to resume the drive south, and Moshe Dayan approved.[37] The Israeli troops finished the drive south, captured the road, and trapped the Egyptian Third Army east of the Suez Canal.

The next morning, October 23, a flurry of diplomatic activity occurred. Soviet reconnaissance flights had confirmed that Israeli forces were moving south, and the Soviets accused the Israelis of treachery. In a phone call with Golda Meir, Henry Kissinger asked, "How can anyone ever know where a line is or was in the desert?" Meir responded, "They'll know, all right." Kissinger found out about the trapped Egyptian army shortly thereafter.[38]

Kissinger realized the situation presented the United States with a tremendous opportunity—Egypt was totally dependent on the United States to prevent Israel from destroying its trapped army, which now had no access to food or water. The position could be parlayed later into allowing the United States to mediate the dispute, and push Egypt out of Soviet influence.

As a result, the United States exerted tremendous pressure on the Israelis to refrain from destroying the trapped army,
even threatening to support a UN resolution to force the Israelis to pull back to their October 22 positions if they did not allow non-military supplies to reach the army. In a phone call with Israeli ambassador Simcha Dinitz, Kissinger told the ambassador that the destruction of the Egyptian Third Army "is an option that does not exist."[39]


Nuclear alert

In the meantime, Brezhnev sent Nixon a letter in the middle of the night of October 23–24. In that letter, Brezhnev proposed that American and Soviet contingents be dispatched to ensure both sides honor the cease-fire. He also threatened that "I will say it straight that if you find it impossible to act jointly with us in this matter, we should be faced with the necessity urgently to consider taking appropriate steps unilaterally. We cannot allow arbitrariness on the part of Israel."[40] In short, the Soviets were threatening to intervene in the war on Egypt's side.

The Soviets placed seven airborne divisions on alert and airlift was marshalled to transport them to the Middle East. An airborne command post was set up in the southern Soviet Union. Several air force units were also alerted. "Reports also indicated that at least one of the divisions and a squadron of transport planes had been moved from the Soviet Union to an airbase in Yugoslavia".[41] The Soviets also deployed seven amphibious warfare craft with some 40,000 naval infantry in the Mediterranean.

The message arrived after Nixon had gone to bed. Kissinger immediately called a meeting of senior officials, including Defense Secretary James Schlesinger, CIA Director William Colby, and White House Chief of Staff Alexander Haig. The Watergate scandal had reached its apex, and Nixon was so agitated and discomposed that they decided to handle the matter without him...."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yom_Kippur_War
Quote:
Originally Posted by Septikos

The Jewish ruled Soviet union would not have invented without approval by Israel!

http://www.JewWatch.com/Video%20...ish%20USSR.htm


And what are your sources? Those owned and financed by Jews?

I personally meet both, Arabs and Jews, so I speak out of experience when I say that Arabs are rather honest people. Jews on the other hand are known since ancient times to be dishonest and their "holy" books tell them that it is ok to lie to the "unclean goyim-cattle"!
[Incredibly] and Now Completely DISCREDITED Skeptikos:

"Jews on the other hand are known since ancient times to be dishonest "

Wow-- it's rare to see a Knuckle Dragging, Old School, Anti-semite these days.
Most try and keep their credenials/Cover as 'anti-zionists'.

But Tedminator couldn't and now you've gone WAY past him!

And Quoting Classic Hate Site 'JewWatch' as well- that's gotta be # 1 or #2 on the net.


Conrgatulations!
And Mods plase leave Skreptikos Hate Speech for posterity - and permanent discrediting of anything he says on Israel.. or anything else.
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"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2008, 02:40 PM
sunnyside sunnyside is online now
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It was a surprise attack by Israeli forces to be sure. I don't think anybody argues that.

However whether Egypt would have attacked or if it was just sabre rattling and trying to improve it's position seems up for debate.

However it certainly wasn't like Israel just attacked out of the blue one day. Both side knew they were standing on the brink of war. The US and Russia were calling each other. Forces were built up. It's just that Israel struck first.

Do you agree with that SE or do you think the Israelis attacked it's neighbors some random day and they had no idea armed conflict could be brewing?
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:15 PM
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However it certainly wasn't like Israel just attacked out of the blue one day.
Quote:
The time-line cited above is clearly putting all the blame on Nasser. It ignores Israeli provocations, especially in the Golan Heights, which had been escalating for years prior to the war. Israel was far from innocent.

attacks against israel leading to the 6 day war.

June 1957- June 1967
1. Attacks on Israeli water sources by Syria, Egypt, the PLO and the Arab League

1958-59: Syria fired into Israel in a series of incidents intended to prevent the construction of an Israeli pumping station for water from the Jordan River. The station was being built according to guidelines set down by the Johnston Plan, brokered by the United States in 1955.
1964: The Arab League announces a water-diversion effort in an attempt to prevent Israel from completing its own water project. This was a strategic move intended to weaken the Jewish State. King Hussein of Jordan claimed Israel's very existence was a "theft of Arab waters," and would ruin Jordan's saleable water supply; this claim was refuted by the Johnston Plan, which had allotted the amount of water that would be peacefully and safely divided among Lebanon (2.7%), Syria (10.3%), Jordan (56%), and Israel (31%).
1965: In January, Palestinian terrorists attempt to bomb Israel's National Water Carrier, which brings water from the Sea of Galilee to the rest of Israel. This was the first attack carried out by PLO's Fatah. In November, Syria fires on an Israeli patrol, and Israel responds by blocking Arab attempts to divert its water with a strategic air strike. However, attacks on t Israel's water projects persist.
1966: Syrian forces and Palestinian terror groups continue attacks on Israeli water facilities.
1967: In the spring of 1967, Palestinian groups blow several water pumps and destroy irrigation equipment in the north of Israel.

2. Attacks on Israeli civilian communities in the north by the Syrian military

1957-58: From June 1957 to November 1958, there were regular and serious border clashes between Israel and Syria, provoked by consistent Syrian artillery shelling of Israeli villages in the upper Galilee. From their vantage point in the Golan Heights 3,000 feet above the Galilee, Syrian forces targeted Jewish farmers in the Hulah Valley below. Jewish pioneers had been cultivating the valley since the early 1900s and had drained the swamps there, making the land suitable for agriculture.
1962-63: Between December 1962 and August 1963, Israel records 98 Syrian attacks including shelling and acts of sabotage.
1965: In January, the Syrians capture Israeli agent Eli Cohen, cutting off an important source of intelligence about Syrian deployments, particularly on the Golan. Cohen is executed that May.
1966: The IDF records 93 border incidents this year, the majority initiated by Syria. They included:

13 February: Syrians shoot at Israeli tractors with mortars. Israeli forces put two Syrian tanks out of action.
21 February: Syrians fire mortars s at a patrol escorting fisherman on Sea of Galilee.
29 March: Tractor driver wounded by Syrian machine gun fire.
30 March: A second tractor driver wounded by Syrian artillery fire.
30 April: Four Israeli workers wounded by Syrian machine gun fire.
5 June: Syrians shell farm workers.
6 June: Syrian shells set fields on fire.
12 July: A tractor driver is seriously wounded by a Syrian mortar. A forest worker is killed by a Syrian mine.
25 July: Serious clashes between Israel and Syria are followed by inconclusive UN Security Council debate.
15 August: Syrians open fire on a patrol boat. Five Israeli soldiers are wounded.
6 September: Seven land reclamation officers wounded by a mine.
26 September: Syrians fire on a fishing boat.
9 October: Four border policemen killed by a Syrian mine.

1967:

2 January: Israeli soldier wounded during a Syrian shelling.
4 January: Syrians shoot at a farmer.
7 January: Syria shells two Israeli settlements. A tractor driver narrowly escapes death.
8 January: Syrians shell and machine gun three Israeli settlements.
11 January: Two Israeli soldiers wounded during a tank duel.
14 January: A young Israeli soldier killed by a Syrian landmine.
15 January: Syrians shell a lake patrol boat.
13 February: Syrians fire on an Israeli patrol.
14 February: Syrian gunfire wounds an Israeli soldier.
4 March: Tractor driver injured by Syrian mine.
7 April: Syrian gunners fire on an Israeli tractor in the demilitarized zone. Artillery fire is exchanged and the fight escalates. Israel sends airplanes to take out Syrian gun positions. In a dogfight, Israel downs six Syrian MiG-21 planes.
8 April: 200 heavy mortar shells reduce the Israeli Gadot settlement to ruins.
7 May: Syria shells Israeli village of Ein Gev.
2 January: Israeli soldier wounded by Syrian shelling.
14 February: Syrian fire wounds an Israeli soldier.
29 May: Renewed Syrian attacks on Israel.
3 June: Four Syrian commandos intercepted in Israel.
3. Terrorist attacks throughout Israel carried out by the PLO (Palestinian Liberation Organization)
The PLO's methods of attack included blowing up private homes, firing at buses, planting land mines, demolishing water pumps, and murdering civilians.

1964: The PLO is established in 1964 with a Charter calling for destruction of Israel and expulsion of its citizens. By 1965, Yassir Arafat's Fatah organization based in Jordan and backed by other militant groups, launches series of cross-border attacks. The PLO's strategy, called "the entanglement theory," uses sabotage to provoke Israeli retaliation, which in turn rallies Arab opinion against Israel.
1965: PLO organizes 35 terrorist raids against Israel.
1966: PLO and its allies conduct 41 terrorist raids against Israel. On November 11, three Israeli soldiers are killed by Fatah mine.
1967: 37 attacks launched in first four months of the year.

4. Sea blockade of Eilat by Egypt
1956: Egypt's President, Gamal Abdel Nasser decides to nationalize the Suez Canal and blockades the Straits of Tiran which provide the only access to Israel's southern port of Eilat on the Red Sea. Israel responds by invading and occupying the Sinai Peninsula for several months until a U.N. peacekeeping force is put in place and the right of free shipping to Eilat is guaranteed by international law. As a result of the conflict, the U.N. declares Israeli shipping has a clear right to pass through the Tiran Straits. This was decided at the U.N.'s Convention on the Territorial Sea and Contiguous Zone and confirmed at the U.N. Conference on the Law of the Sea on April 27, 1958. In 1950, Egypt itself had recognized the Tiran Straits as "free" in conformity with the recognized principles of international law.



United States President, Lyndon Johnson remarked after the Six-Day War:


“If a single act of folly was more responsible for [the Six-Day War] explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed. The right of innocent maritime passage must be preserved for all nations."






1967: On May 19, Egypt again blockades the Straits of Tiran, preventing the flow of oil and other goods into Eilat and cutting Israel's entire trade connections with the Far East. Prior to this, Israel clearly stated that closing the Straits would be considered an "act of war." Egypt's blockade of Eilat violated the 1957 U.N. agreements. Maritime nations, which under the agreements were supposed to intervene in the event of such violations, did nothing.
NOTE: On May 16, the commander of the United Nations Peacekeeping Force in Sinai (UNEF) was handed a letter from Egypt's Chief of Staff General Mohammad Fawzy asking that the peacekeepers be withdrawn immediately for their own safety. United Nations Secretary General U Thant tried to negotiate with the Egyptian government, but on May 18, the Egyptian Foreign Minister told governments with troops in the force that they must withdraw. Several countries began evacuating their soldiers. Egypt then informed U Thant that the Egyptian government had decided to terminate UNEF's presence in the Sinai and the Gaza Strip. On May 19, the UNEF commander was given the order to withdraw. Nasser immediately began massing tanks and troops on the border with Israel.

source

Last edited by halla; 03-25-2008 at 10:17 PM.
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Old 03-26-2008, 07:30 AM
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@ i.beletesri

We can play this game ad infinitum, I post sources and than you post Jewish owned sources claiming exactly the opposite. Sources like the "theisraelproject.org" and the Zionist controlled wiki are no better than Jewwatch and Arab sources!

Quote:
"War is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength" - Orwell, "1984"

Quote:
Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
"Jews on the other hand are known since ancient times to be dishonest "

Wow-- it's rare to see a Knuckle Dragging, Old School, Anti-semite these days.
I just know some of those things written in the Talmud, people fallowing a religion which states that it is ok to lie to non-Jews, to steal from them, or to even kill them, don't have to wonder that other people do no longer believe any word they say! People that believe in the word of a Jew deserve to get ripped off and deceived!
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Old 03-26-2008, 06:01 PM
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i.beletesri i.beletesri is offline
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Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner View Post
@ i.beletesri

We can play this game ad infinitum, I post sources and than you post Jewish owned sources claiming exactly the opposite. Sources like the "theisraelproject.org" and the Zionist controlled wiki are no better than Jewwatch and Arab sources!....

So Wikipedia is Equivalent to Infamouus Jew-Haters 'JewWatch'- whose very purpose is hate.. and tonight you PLAGIARIZED/Withheld the Link for another of your sources/Beauties .. David Duke! LOL
Even you musta known that was a ridiculous attempt.
Palestinian loss of Land 1946-2000
(your post #15, my Exposing #16)

Your game of Moral Equivalence is Absurd (ie. comparing Wikipedia to David Duke) and Witholding Links is Proof you know your sources are Biased.. and is Dishonest as well.

And I might add you have dropped the topic as you realize you have NO knowledge at all.
Not even knowing how the 1967 and 1973 Wars ended.. which is common knowledge to even amateurs.
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Originally Posted by Tehran Tim

"....This should begin with more Jews standing up and condemning the Hateful Vulgarities of Their Religion..."

"....When your religion teaches you to lie, steal, cheat, murder, hate, rob, and deceive non-Jews, than there's something seriously wrong and backward about your religion.


http://www.politicalforum.com/religi...tml#post705689

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Old 03-26-2008, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner View Post
@ i.beletesri

We can play this game ad infinitum, I post sources and than you post Jewish owned sources claiming exactly the opposite. Sources like the "theisraelproject.org" and the Zionist controlled wiki are no better than Jewwatch and Arab sources!
I must say that "Zionist controlled wiki" has to be the stupidest comment that I have ever hear.
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Old 03-27-2008, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
[b]
So Wikipedia is Equivalent to Infamouus Jew-Haters 'JewWatch'- whose very purpose is hate..

Your game of Moral Equivalence is Absurd (ie. comparing Wikipedia to David Duke) and Witholding Links is Proof you know your sources are Biased.. and is Dishonest as well.
Jew watch posts only truth, not hate! Wiki is a Zionist hate site spreading all kind of propaganda under the cover of an "open encyclopedia"! I participated for a while on Wiki and I know all those dirty tricks with which alternative points of view are suppressed there. A lot of full time chills like you are moving around there undoing all edits they don't like, in case you do not give in they will start a discussion in which they use all dishonest tricks and intellectual falicies in the book, and in case one still does not given in, a mod comes and locks the article so no more changes in the direction of the truth are possible.

Jews created never anything for the public good, fallowing the Jewish mind set, creating something without using it for the advancement of their own agenda would be a foolish waste of time and recourses. Only the goyim cattle are so stupid! Jews create their own reality and than they use their money and media control to force their nonsense on the rest of the population. In case of resistance, laws are passed to protect their nonsense and to outlaw alternative points of view!

All cooperate media sources are compromised, and so are all other sources depending in one way or another on Jewish money!

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Old 03-27-2008, 08:16 AM
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Jew Watch Is Love

Zionist-Censorship-On-Youtube

Frank Waltner on freedom of speech


The real hater are those of the Jewish controlled side!

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Old 03-27-2008, 09:13 AM
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Huh. So you'll dismiss any source that doesn't totally agree with you as "jewish lies" regardless of its source. Is that correct?

However I'd bet that in regards to the six day war you could find Egyptian and other sources that would confirm a military buildup by Egypt and other related information that shows the Israeli pre-emptive strike wasn't an attack out of the blue.

As for the wiki thing it is possible for people pushing a view to make a difference. However I'm guessing Skeptikos here would have attempted to push some stuff which is just far out there from anti semetic sources and pretty much everybody else would have disagreed with you and you're probably vehement enough to get into some mod trouble.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by i.beletesri View Post
May 14, 1967: Egypt's President Gamal Nasser demands the withdrawal of United Nations force--established in 1957 as an international "guarantee" of safety for Israel--from the Sinai peninsula. The UN meekly obeys; the United States and Britain fail to rouse the Security Council to take action. (Strange move for someone playing defense and not itself planning attack)

May 18: Nasser announces blockade of Straits of Tiran in the Red Sea, severing Israel's southern maritime link to the outside world. Israel considers the closure an act of war.
(US President Lyndon Johnson later says: "If a single act of folly was more Responsible for this explosion than any other it was the arbitrary and Dangerous announced decision that the Straits of Tiran would be closed.")
I presume that you highlighted these two events because they are what you consider to be the two main issues that led to the 6-day war. The well-reported Israeli violations of the demilitarized zone on the Syrian border are marginal to this, are they? The totally over-the-top incursions by Israel into Jordan with the massacre of villagers at Samau played no role in promoting those May 1967 actions, did they? Hmmm. Israel did not show it wanted to poke the Arabs into action did it?

Xandufar also said so on this thread but there was no reaction. Presumably his comments were accepted de facto.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xandufar View Post
The time-line cited above is clearly putting all the blame on Nasser. It ignores Israeli provocations, especially in the Golan Heights, which had been escalating for years prior to the war. Israel was far from innocent.
So, let us not ignore that Israel had long been stoking the fire, and for the moment pretend that Nasser got out of bed in early May 1967 not because Israel had been poking him for years, but with no provocation whatsoever by Israel, he decided to rattle her cage just for the sheer hell of it. So let us refer to your top two war-causing factors and see how they stand up to scrutiny using all historical facts.

Rebuttal: 1) May 14th – Nasser orders UNEF withdrawal from Sinai. Mr B says the UN meekly obeyed.
Reference: http://www.un.org/Depts/dpko/dpko/co...f1backgr2.html
They did so because QUOTE: “UNEF could enter and operate in Egypt only with the consent of the Egyptian Government.” UNQUOTE. This was the result of UN deliberations after the unprovoked attack by Israel on Egypt in 1956. There was nothing meek about it Mr B, they were just keeping their word.

Let me remind you what led up to this bellicose situation by quoting the same UNEF document:: QUOTE: The 1949 General Armistice Agreement between Egypt and Israel – concluded under the auspices of and supervised by the United Nations – collapsed when Israel and two major Powers occupied large portions of Egyptian territory .UNQUOTE

Did you spot that Mr B. Since the armistice after the original 1948 flare up when Israel unilaterally declared independence instead of allowing the full implementation of UNSC 181, the first country to go to war was ……? Yes, it was peace-seeking Israel!! (Strange move for someone playing defence and not itself planning to attack). So the track-record for major breaking of peace had been set. And it is ABSOLUTELY clear who started it.

What was the main role of UNEF in Sinai? Mr B. says it was to guarantee the safety of Israel. Let me quote from the same document again - QUOTE: “The United Nations Emergency Force was the key element in the United Nations efforts to resolve the crisis arising from the military action of the Israeli and Anglo-French forces against Egypt.” UNQUOTE

Need another nail? QUOTE: The Secretary-General impressed upon those authorities that the Force provided a guarantee for the withdrawal of foreign forces from Egypt and that, since it would come only with Egypt's consent, it could not stay or operate in Egypt if that consent were withdrawn. UNQUOTE

Naughty Mr B, naughty. That’s not what you said on 2 topics in one sentence. You show scant respect for the real facts. Rebuttal 1) ends.

When I have time I will address your second critical point showing that Egypt was responsible for the 6 Day War, the one about the straits of Tiran.
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