Palestinian loss of Land 1946-2000 - Page 5

moe1974 · #41 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concheet

Well Maybe. But Germany isn't where the Jews come from (though many lived there in the first half of the 20th century). Don't forget that Jerusalem and the surrounds has housed Jews for forever. In the Bible it mentions Jerusalem over 600 times! (and despite the fact that it is supposed to be holy to Muslims as well, it is NOT MENTIONED ONCE BY NAME in the Koran). The Bible says that Abraham bought a patch of dirt in Hebron, and there have been Jews there since forever as well. Forget not that there have always been Jews in the middle east, in Egypt, in Yemen, in Iraq, in Iran, and throughout Palestine and Gaza, before they were thrown out by the Arabs. There were even Jews in Saudi Arabia before Mohammed came in and killed some of them and since the recent Arabs threw out their Jews. So why shouldn't they have a home in the region? And why shouldn't they be able to make the rules in their own country, to decide who can immigrate and who can live there? Arabs do so in their countries, don't they?

This is nothing against the jews, however why should land be taken in the middle east when the crime was committed in europe. So are telling one day we should give this land back to the native american. Germany should have been punished for their crime against humanity not the arabs.

i.beletesri · #42 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moe1974

This is nothing against the jews, however why should land be taken in the middle east when the crime was committed in europe. So are telling one day we should give this land back to the native american. Germany should have been punished for their crime against humanity not the arabs.

No moe.

From page 1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by i.beletesri

Deceptive Maps in the Title post of this string... and certainly last is baffling and not even what's been proposed as Final 'Palestine'.

The biggest 'Loss' on the Skeptikos Propaganda Maps (Maps 1-2) was the UN partition and shows a LIE about what is "Palestinian Land".. since about 2/3 of what was shown as "Palestinian", like the Half-alone of Israel that is the Negev, was State Land passing from the Ottomans to the British to The Jews, owned by No Arab.

Here are some with more perspective

The Maps leave out the Fact that 77% of British Mandate 'Palestine' was lopped and made Jordan, no Jews allowed.

Jordan is 70% 'Palestinian'.
Leaving the other 23% divided roughly 13-10 for the Jews.

Meaning the Arabs aka Palestinians got 87% of Mandate Palestine.
(the Pink AND Red Areas)

And آ½ of the Jews 13% was the Negev Desert. (lower آ½ the light Blue Area above)
So Jews really got about 6% of the usable land of the Original Mandate.
AND unlike in The surrounding states... Arabs still live in/make up 20% of Current Israel's population within that land.

Again, and Also Missed on those maps? 2/3 of what became Israel was State Land, passing from the Ottomans, to the British, to the Jews; owned by NO Arab.
This Includes the Half alone of Israel that was/Is the Negev Desert.

-

Yes, the lower half of that little that red spot/Israel- is the Negev Desert, State Land under the Ottomans, owned by No Arab. (and about 15-20% more that was also state land). And 20% of the population of the upper half of the Red Dot- is Arab.

Not taken.
no more than 'Lebanon' was taken from the French Mandate..
and a hell of alot Less taken that 'Kurdistan' was by Arabs/Given by Brits.

Basically, the Arabs did fabulously well in the Ottoman Breakup.

moe1974 · #43 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 08:55 PM

[quote=i.beletesri;477275]No moe.

From page 1.

Not taken.
no more than 'Lebanon' was taken from the French Mandate..
and a hell of alot Less taken that 'Kurdistan' was by Arabs/Given by Brits.

Basically, the Arabs did fabulously well in the Ottoman Breakup.[/QUO
that still does not change the fact that germany committed the crime and gave up no land. And britain had no right to the land. So giving someone a portion of there land is not fabulous.

B L Zeebub · #44 (**permalink**) 04-01-2008, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B L Zeebub

To Skept and Vlaam.

I have a Daughter, if she met and wanted to marry a Palestinian or a person of any ethnic background, I would be happy for her.

Would you be the same with your child?

I live in a very multi ethnic part of the Uk, I love it, it adds "spice" to my life,

Would you, or do you live in an area like I do, and do you like it?

Schicklgruber the austrian, illegitimate, one testicled sexual deviant house painter, Mad Alf Hitler.

I dislike

his current followers what about you?

Still no reply! what must I conclude?

i.beletesri · #45 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 04:33 AM

[quote=moe1974;477281]

Quote:

Originally Posted by i.beletesri

No moe.

From page 1.

Not taken.
no more than 'Lebanon' was taken from the French Mandate..
and a hell of alot Less taken that 'Kurdistan' was by Arabs/Given by Brits.

Basically, the Arabs did fabulously well in the Ottoman Breakup.[/QUO
that still does not change the fact that germany committed the crime and gave up no land. And britain had no right to the land. So giving someone a portion of there land is not fabulous.

Did up read my post?

Jews didn't just show up after the Holocaust and say "State".
Jews were in good enough number even in the late 19th C to Justify a state- and were promised [a larger] one after the Previous World War (I), by the UN predecessor and and the British.

What was "taken"?
Be specific instead of empty.

Skeptikos Examiner · #46 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concheet

You are nuts. They paid thousands of dollars to keep their own internal report about their anti-Israel bias out of the public eye. You obviously did not read the links I put up. Clearly you are making stuff up here. It seems you have your own bias that doesn't require ONE FACT. This belongs in the conspiracy section theory.

Bla bla, they organize a theater in form of a pseudo legal battle and I'm supposed to believe those poor written acts and thus start to trust the BBC which has spread propaganda ever since it was founded? Please, I'm no unreasonable cattle in human shape, you have to do better to fool me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by concheet

See above about conspiracy section. You are full of non-facts and subjective bias.

That's where you should post all your nonsense about evil Arabs conspiring against the "peaceful Jews" in occupied Palestine. Well, at least till we get a Talmudic hate propaganda and nonsense section here!

PS: You are free to search for yourself and maybe learn something on the way!

Skeptikos Examiner · #47 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kuta777

I agree, bombing a mcdonalds with innocent civilians in it is not the right way to get your land back. Israel is much stronger than the palestinian countries around it and killing civilians is not going to work. Israel has proved their dominence several times and until the palestinians can work peacefully, Israle has no responsibility to listen to them.

I wonder in what world you live, the Palestinian had just recently peaceful and democratic elections and because the Jews did not like the outcome they started to starve the whole population and the delivered weapons to pro-Israel fractions which started street fight with the elected government that killed many innocent bystanders.

Sorry but forget the propaganda and keep it real, Gaza is a huge concentration camp in which the people are systematically being starved to death, with Israeli snipers shooting Palestinian children in front of their schools and artillery routinely firing into civil areas full of people! Around 75% of the Palestinian children show clear symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder, you know the same kind of psychological disorder many USrael soldiers in the Iraq war developed and that tells you a lot about the circumstances in which they live!

And you you expect people state are starved to death inside a huge open air concentration camp to just shut up and watch quietly how the Jews slowly kill them and grab more land?

What would you think if someone would brake into YOUR HOUSE claiming such nonsense as a "right of defense", or a "right to exist", and it gets even better, a "right to return". Not just for himself but for his whole family and all their relatives. They slowly take over your house and you end up in a small smelly room in the basement without a window or a toilet. A room you have to share with your whole family! -- Remember it's your own house! -- After fully feeling at home, in your home, they start killing your neighbors and destroy the trees in your garden. They live from the food your garden provides while you and your family are starving.

What would you do?

Skeptikos Examiner · #48 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by concheet

Don't forget that Jerusalem and the surrounds has housed Jews for forever. In the Bible it mentions Jerusalem over 600 times! (and despite the fact that it is supposed to be holy to Muslims as well, it is NOT MENTIONED ONCE BY NAME in the Koran). The Bible says that Abraham bought a patch of dirt in Hebron, and there have been Jews there since forever as well. Forget not that there have always been Jews in the middle east, in Egypt, in Yemen, in Iraq, in Iran, and throughout Palestine and Gaza, before they were thrown out by the Arabs.

The bible is a collection of nonsense written by the Jews! Nonsense about the earth being created in 6 days and human being made out of dirt. Noah's arch, the flood, and other fantasy which never happened. Sorry but claims out of a religious books full of nonsense mean absolutely nothing. Pretty much any attempt, at least those I'm aware of, in the past to proof or find proof for some of those pseudo-historical events speaking of in the bible have failed! When the Christian moved into Asia they searched in old Chinese libraries, in ancient Sanskrit texts in India, and so on which were all older than the bible, nowhere could they find even a trace of those nonsense spoking of in the bible!

The old testament is full of nonsense and hate propaganda against the people of ancient Egypt and others while lacking any real historical foundation!

i.beletesri · #49 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skeptikos Examiner

The bible is a collection of nonsense written by the Jews! Nonsense about the earth being created in 6 days and human being made out of dirt. Noah's arch, the flood, and other fantasy which never happened. Sorry but claims out of a religious books full of nonsense mean absolutely nothing. Pretty much any attempt, at least those I'm aware of, in the past to proof or find proof for some of those pseudo-historical events speaking of in the bible have failed! When the Christian moved into Asia they searched in old Chinese libraries, in ancient Sanskrit texts in India, and so on which were all older than the bible, nowhere could they find even a trace of those nonsense spoking of in the bible!

The old testament is full of nonsense and hate propaganda against the people of ancient Egypt and others while lacking any real historical foundation!

Once again Skeptikos- quoter of David Duke and JewWatch (HIS 'wikipedia'/Bible) among many other Hate sites is 100% Wrong

This is getting tedious- but <<<Personal Attack Removed>>> it does have it's satisfactions.

As a Militant Atheist I must say I find all Holy Books .. wel.. Not holy-- and more morality Play than Truth.

Of course- Christianity and Islam are Derivational to Judaism (and Jesus was Practicing Jew) and therefore even further afield- you must believe in the OT GFod to believe the others.

Alas for those of us Skeptics.. more of [at least] the Jews Holy book is found to be true every year

Quote:

".....Biblical Archaeology: Ancient Israel

Biblical archaeology then turns to the evidence for the early Israelites. The Merneptah Stele (also known as the Israel Stele) is an upright stone slab measuring over seven feet tall that contains carved hieroglyphic text dating to approximately 1230 BC.

The Egyptian stele describes the military victories of Pharaoh Merneptah and includes the earliest mention of "Israel" outside the Bible. Although the specific battles covered by the stele are not included in the Bible, the stele establishes extra-biblical evidence that the Israelites were already living as a people in ancient Canaan by 1230 BC.

In addition to the Stele, a large wall picture was discovered in the great Karnak Temple of Luxor (ancient Thebes), which shows battle scenes between the Egyptians and Israelites. These scenes have also been attributed to Pharaoh Merneptah and date to approximately 1209 BC.
The Karnak Temple also contains records of Pharaoh Shishak's military victories about 280 years later.
Specifically, the Shishak Relief depicts Egypt's victory over King Rehoboam in about 925 BC, when Solomon's Temple in Judah was plundered. This is the exact event mentioned in 1 Kings 14 and 2 Chronicles 12.

Outside Egypt, we also discover a wealth of evidence for the early Israelites. The Moabite Stone (Mesha Stele) is a three-foot stone slab discovered near Dibon, East of the Dead Sea, that describes the reign of Mesha, King of Moab, around 850 BC. According to Genesis 19, the Moabites were neighbors of the Israelites. The stele covers victories by King Omri and Ahab of Israel against Moab, and Mesha's later victories on behalf of Moab against King Ahab's descendants (2 Kings 3).

The Black Obelisk of Shalmaneser is a seven-foot, four-sided pillar of basalt that describes the victories of King Shalmaneser III of Assyria. Dated to about 841 BC, the Obelisk was discovered in the ancient palace of Nimrud and shows Israel's King Jehu kneeling before the Assyrian king in humble tribute (see 2 Kings 9-10).

The House of David and Solomon's Temple

Biblical archaeology covering ancient Israeli kings and culture received a huge lift in 1994 when archaeologists discovered a stone inscription at the ancient city of Dan, which refers to the "House of David."
The House of David Inscription (Tel Dan Inscription) is important because it's the first ancient reference to King David outside the Bible.
Specifically, the stone is a victory pillar of a King in Damascus dated about 250 years after David's reign, which mentions a "king of Israel" (probably Joram, son of Ahab) and a king of the "House of David" (probably Ahaziah of Judah).

Another important find is the House of Yahweh Ostracon, which is a pottery shard dated to about 800 BC that contains a written receipt for a donation of silver shekels to Solomon's Temple. Written approximately 130 years after the completion of the Temple, this appears to be the earliest mention of Solomon's Temple outside the Bible."

http://biblical-archaeology.net

It's odd finding myself defending anything in any Holy Book- but as to the History of the Jews, there is some ample confirmation as cited above- and more seems to be confirmed every decade or so by Archaelogy.
And again, always a pleasure to put you in your place.

halla · #50 (**permalink**) 04-02-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Sorry but forget the propaganda and keep it real, Gaza is a huge concentration camp in which the people are systematically being starved to death, with Israeli snipers shooting Palestinian children in front of their schools and artillery routinely firing into civil areas full of people! Around 75% of the Palestinian children show clear symptoms of post traumatic stress disorder, you know the same kind of psychological disorder many USrael soldiers in the Iraq war developed and that tells you a lot about the circumstances in which they live!

And you you expect people state are starved to death inside a huge open air concentration camp to just shut up and watch quietly how the Jews slowly kill them and grab more land?

your post is propaganda. prior to the intifada started by the palestinians in 2001:

UNISPAL Home
Press Release
UNITED NATIONS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HR/CN/01/30
3 April 2001

COMMISSION ON HUMAN RIGHTS CONTINUES DEBATE ON
ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS

Independent Expert on Extreme Poverty and Human Rights Presents Report

The Commission on Human Rights this afternoon continued its debate on economic, social and cultural rights, hearing from speakers who highlighted issues ranging from the negative effects of globalization on economic, social and cultural rights in developing countries to the effect of foreign debt on the implementation of these rights and the need for support from the international community to order to ensure them.

/...

The Commission was scheduled to continue its work in an extended evening meeting until 9 p.m. to continue its debate on economic, social and cultural rights.

Economic, Social and Cultural Rights

/...

LYNA AL-TABAL, of Nord-Sud XXI, said the continued occupation of the Palestinian territories by the Israeli military had had a severely negative impact upon the basic human rights of the Palestinian population. Since the end of September, many Palestinians had either been unable to reach their places of employment, or had been unable to work due to a lack of business or resources. It was estimated that half the population of the Gaza Strip was either directly or indirectly dependent upon income generated by work within Israel. Prior to the intifada, more than 130,000 Palestinians had worked within Israel, in settlements, or in Israeli industrial areas. Since the intifada began, this number had been cut to approximately 20,000. Daily direct losses due to lost work in Israel were estimated at $ 2.7 million per day. Additionally, lost income due to an inability to import means of production or export products, restrictions on travel and decreased productivity in the occupied territories had greatly affected the Palestinian economy. The Office of the United Nations Special Coordinator had estimated that Palestinian losses had reached as high as $ 1.15 billion at the end of January.

There needed to be international protection for the Palestinian people by pushing for the creation of an international protection force by the Security Council. Nord-Sud XXI also demanded that the High Contracting Parties to the Fourth Geneva Convention enforce the provisions of the Convention and its Protocols. It urged the international community and the United Nations General Assembly to exercise their role under international law by adopting effective measures, including economic sanctions, to oblige Israel to adhere to United Nations resolutions. It was vital that economic, social and cultural rights be accorded full recognition within the United Nations treaty monitoring system. Four of the six international human rights treaties already had optional protocols providing for individual communications to the treaty bodies. Developing an optional protocol to the International Convention on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights would be a critical step towards realizing the indivisibility and interdependence of human rights, upon which the entire United Nations human rights system was based.

/...

-----
__________________________________________________ ____________________
For information media - not an official record

http://domino.un.org/unispal.nsf/998...b!OpenDocument

then with hamas taking control of gaza after it became a jew free we have the never ending rocket/motar attacks against israel.

Quote:

More than 7,000 Kassam rockets and mortars have been fired at Jewish communities in the western Negev since the beginning of the Oslo War in 2000, also known as the Second Intifada. Most have exploded in the city of Sderot, prompting 20 percent of the population to abandon their homes and a significant number of businesses to relocate.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125204

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