Palestinian Holocaust - Page 7

Foolosophy · #61 (**permalink**) 06-04-2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

I think he probably meant an attack of "all encompassing flames" rather than one of genocide. If there ever was a genocide committed by the Israelis, then I would want them kicked out of the Middle East and sent on their way.

-

But you're willing to accept the 35 to 1 killing ratio of Palestinian civilians to Israeli deaths over the past 40 years?

The only time that ratio was reduced was when the suicide bombings commenced about 8 years ago. The ratio for a while there was about 3 to 1. This is when the Israelis thought that a heavy hand (or shoudl I say a heavier hand) should be employed in the Occupied terrtories and that illegal settlements and walls shoudl be constructed.

Its a mess there - and its that way because the USA supports the mess by its diplomatic and military bias in the region.

take Tony Blair for example. He is now the an official moderator between the Palestinians and the Israelis. He has had countless meetings - BUT NOT ONE IN PALESTINE. He has never set foot in Occupied Palestine yet.

All his meetings have been in Israel, the USA and on neutral ground.

How can the Arab world or the Palestinians take him seriously in his endevours to broker a settlement between the two parties<

Its a real mess! But with a simple solution. But we know why the simple solution is not on the table DONT WE WHITE FOX!

brother · #62 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Fox

Ummm... No,

But they are not committing the systematic destruction of a race or ethnic group.

-

this is systematic destruction for human and every thing in palestine , continous destruction since 60 years , look at gaza just look at gaza strip
people democratially chose hamas , then isreal make gaza strip big persion
no electricity no food ,children die in hospital becuse israel forbade medical supply to enter gaza strips .
is isreal moral state ?

White Fox · #63 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother

this is systematic destruction for human and every thing in palestine , continous destruction since 60 years , look at gaza just look at gaza strip
people democratially chose hamas , then isreal make gaza strip big persion
no electricity no food ,children die in hospital becuse israel forbade medical supply to enter gaza strips .
is isreal moral state ?

Question was not "is Israel a moral state" it was "is Israel committing genocide."

Are the Israelis trying to kill every Palestinian?

NO, they are NOT. And I have yet to see any proof to the contrary.

Giorgio · #64 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 12:44 PM

The Israelis are not committing genocide, and to say so is the kind of comment that really damages the cause of anyone trying to criticise Israeli policies. The motivation is obvious: try to create an ironic juxtaposition of the genocide Jews suffered in Israel and a supposed genocide that Jewish Israel is committing today.

Genocide is a very, very specific act. It entails measured policies aiming to wipe out (not aggrieve, damage, or injure) a given ethnic minority. This can be done through killing, rape or dispersion of communities. Using it to describe the undeniable oppression and alienation palestinian communities feel cheapens the term. We don't need it to be genocide for it to be a politically important issue.

wind · #65 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giorgio

The Israelis are not committing genocide, and to say so is the kind of comment that really damages the cause of anyone trying to criticise Israeli policies. The motivation is obvious: try to create an ironic juxtaposition of the genocide Jews suffered in Israel and a supposed genocide that Jewish Israel is committing today.

Genocide is a very, very specific act. It entails measured policies aiming to wipe out (not aggrieve, damage, or injure) a given ethnic minority. This can be done through killing, rape or dispersion of communities. Using it to describe the undeniable oppression and alienation palestinian communities feel cheapens the term. We don't need it to be genocide for it to be a politically important issue.

I agree in priniciple with most of your post. What I read is that someone in the Israeli govt used the term 'genocide' in relation to what sounded like a warning--that the Palestinians would 'bring genocide on themselves'.

If someone is already of the opinion that Israel's aggression is supported and unchecked by the West, but of concern to Arabs in the Middle East, they could hear that statement as a threat of genocide by Israel to the Palestinians.

IMO they would be mistaken, but its an understandable mistake given how inflamed strife is there.

White Fox · #66 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind

I agree in priniciple with most of your post. What I read is that someone in the Israeli govt used the term 'genocide' in relation to what sounded like a warning--that the Palestinians would 'bring genocide on themselves'.

If someone is already of the opinion that Israel's aggression is supported and unchecked by the West, but of concern to Arabs in the Middle East, they could hear that statement as a threat of genocide by Israel to the Palestinians.

IMO they would be mistaken, but its an understandable mistake given how inflamed strife is there.

I see what you're saying, but the actual term used was 'holocaust,' not 'genocide' and there is a subtle technical difference.

holocaust (small "h") does not necessarily imply genocide.

Quote:

The term holocaust originally derived from the Greek word holókauston, meaning a "completely (holos) burnt (kaustos)" sacrificial offering to a god. Its Latin form (holocaustum) was first used with specific reference to a massacre of Jews by the chroniclers Roger of Howden[8] and Richard of Devizes in the 1190s. Since the late 19th century, it has been used primarily to refer to disasters or catastrophes.

The biblical word Shoah (שואה) (also spelled Sho'ah and Shoa), meaning "calamity," became the standard Hebrew term for the Holocaust as early as the 1940s.[9] Shoah is preferred by many Jews for a number of reasons, including the theologically offensive nature of the original meaning of "holocaust."[10]

Definition

The word "holocaust" has been used since the 18th century to refer to the violent deaths of a large number of people.[11] For example, Winston Churchill and other contemporaneous writers used it before World War II to describe the Armenian Genocide of World War I. [12] Since the 1950s its use has been increasingly restricted, and it is now mainly used to describe the Nazi Holocaust, spelled with a capital H.

"Holocaust" was adopted as a translation of "Shoah" — a Hebrew word connoting catastrophe, calamity, disaster and destruction [13] — which was used in 1940 in Jerusalem in a booklet called Sho'at Yehudei Polin, and translated as The Holocaust of the Jews of Poland. "Shoah" had earlier been used in the context of the Nazis as a translation of "catastrophe"; for example, in 1934, Chaim Weizmann told the Zionist Action Committee that Hitler's rise to power was an "unvorhergesehene Katastropha, etwa ein neur Weltkrieg" ("an unforeseen catastrophe, perhaps even a new world war"); the Hebrew press translated "Katastropha" as "Shoah."[14] In the spring of 1942, the Jerusalem historian BenZion Dinur (Dinaburg) used "Shoah" in a book published by the United Aid Committee for the Jews in Poland to describe the extermination of Europe's Jews, calling it a "catastrophe" that symbolized the unique situation of the Jewish people.[13][15] The word "Shoah" was chosen in Israel to describe the Holocaust, the term institutionalized by the Knesset on April 12, 1951, when it established Yom Ha-Shoah Ve Mered Ha-Getaot, the national day of remembrance. By the 1950s, its translation, "Holocaust," popularized by Yad Vashem, had come routinely to refer to the genocide of the European Jews.[9][14]

Foolosophy · #67 (**permalink**) 06-15-2008, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brother

this is systematic destruction for human and every thing in palestine , continous destruction since 60 years , look at gaza just look at gaza strip
people democratially chose hamas , then isreal make gaza strip big persion
no electricity no food ,children die in hospital becuse israel forbade medical supply to enter gaza strips .
is isreal moral state ?

And this barbaric Irsraeli Immorality is allowed to continue and is supported by the financial. military and diplomatic efforts of the USA.

Its the USA that has continued to veto and block a diplomatic solution to thei problem.

Israel after all is the USA's largest receiver of foreign aid. - And what sort of Aid? mostly weapons.

And what is Israel's major exprt item? Military weapons.

And why is lthe only nation to possess nuclear weapons and WMDs in the middle east?

michael0 · #68 (**permalink**) 06-16-2008, 06:41 AM

>...from http://aztlan.net/holocoust.htm
Ay carumba, that website Aztlan.net is full of anti-semitic, homophobic crapola. Reprints the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and rants vs. Lesbians. Lovely stuff, eh?!

michael0 · #69 (**permalink**) 06-16-2008, 06:44 AM

http://www.encounterbooks.com/
short book full of facts vs. this "ZioNazi, " agitprop,
http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/historyupsidedown/
History Upside Down
The Roots of Palestinian Fascism and the Myth of Israeli Aggression
http://www.encounterbooks.com/books/...isplay=excerpt

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