The Israels-Palestina War And My Favoritism - Page 2

CB4 · #11 (**permalink**) 04-15-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CIAagent11

Hi, the endless repetitions in the other subforums got boring, so I figured, I turn to more substantive issues.

My position is pretty much that the Palestinians are the bad guys and Israel has to do some blameworthy stuff to defend itself.
I don't know why I think that, maybe their propaganda got to me first.
Since I'm largely unaffected, I chose to stick with the guy, who blows up a school up with a chopper over a guy that blows himself up in a school.
And if Israel wins nobody gets eradicated, if they lose Israel will cease to exist.

I think Israel holds nations like Germany hostage, for something that happened 60 years ago, to blackmail support, mostly in the form of financial aid, military equipment and political backup.
And to lesser extend the US and other nations through that and other crooked political means.
I think for example Germany should support Israel for the right reasons, and not the wrong reasons, but maybe that is an utopian outlook.

I do not wish to convince anybody, but if you like to point out an inconsistency or error in my thinking, you are welcome and I apreciate it, as I wish to be to the test.
And I can assure you, that my opinion is not set in stone, has altered before, and will be influenced by valid arguments.

I don't think you can just call one side the bad guy. Both sides have much to be blamed for. Choosing sides only continues the violence. In the end both sides want the same things: their own sovereign lands and peace so that they can govern.

Yoadm · #12 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies

I don't understand why Israel won't just sit tight with their giant military and funding.

A high military budget enables one to defend himself from harm, not the opposite.. When a 1/7th of the country is under daily bombardment, people dont go to school, dozens are wounded, 100,000 children suffer from post traumatic stress and 200,000 are living in bunkers, you do not just sit tight.

Yoadm · #13 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies

I don't understand why Israel won't just sit tight with their giant military and funding. The reason for their overreaction a few months ago was either that it was a vestige of historical tensions or that they are trying to make a point - that no one (*)(*)(*)(*)s with Israel. Either way, murding hundreds of civilians with no regard for women and children, aid workers, schools and hospitals, etc, etc is not a dignified and praise-worthy way to go about reiterating your right to exist.

Just another point I would like to make with regards to your post: Had Israel intentionally targetted civilians, tens-of thousands would have been killed. The fact is that one errant bomb on an apartment building could have killed hundreds, yet despite 2300 bombing sorties against Hamas, 10,000 artillary rounds and a massive ground campeign, only (and yes, I mean only when you compare it to other instances of urban warfare) 500 civilians have been killed - This despite Gaza being one of the densest areas on earth with it's leadership intentionally putting its civilians in harms way for self-preservation.

calmObserver · #14 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarryStarrySkies

...The reason for their overreaction a few months ago was either that it was a vestige of historical tensions or that they are trying to make a point - that no one (*)(*)(*)(*)s with Israel...

some think israel was sending a message to obama ~ could be. no doubt about the message olmert sent as to who runs whom.

calmObserver · #15 (**permalink**) 04-16-2009, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yoadm

...When a 1/7th of the country is under daily bombardment, people dont go to school, dozens are wounded, 100,000 children suffer from post traumatic stress and 200,000 are living in bunkers...

using your thesis matters for the palestinians is several orders of magnitude worse than israelis.

Yoadm · #16 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmObserver

using your thesis matters for the palestinians is several orders of magnitude worse than israelis.

And Germany's situation in WWII was far worse than that of the US. The point is that if Hamas ceases firing it's missiles, Israel's retaliations will cease aswell, as they did during the cease-fire, when Hamas lowered it's rocket barrage numbers (but didnt totally halt them). A defending nation does not have to just 'sit tight' when attacked. Infact, it can, and will, respond disproportionately in order to halt attacks against its citizens.

White Doors · #17 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB4

I don't think you can just call one side the bad guy. Both sides have much to be blamed for. Choosing sides only continues the violence. In the end both sides want the same things: their own sovereign lands and peace so that they can govern.

Simply not true. A cursory look at Hamas' charter and you would see that you are, indeed, wrong. If Hamas really only wanted Peace then there would be peace right now.

That's just the facts.

CB4 · #18 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Doors

Simply not true. A cursory look at Hamas' charter and you would see that you are, indeed, wrong. If Hamas really only wanted Peace then there would be peace right now.

That's just the facts.

Hamas was the elected government because of the corrupt Fatah. Palestinian leadership has failed. But in the end Palestinians want peace and want the bloodshed to end. Israel on the other hand, have a very right wing government at the moment that will cause more problems.

Because in the end, Palestinians are suffering to a greater extent.

White Doors · #19 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB4

Hamas was the elected government because of the corrupt Fatah. Palestinian leadership has failed. But in the end Palestinians want peace and want the bloodshed to end. Israel on the other hand, have a very right wing government at the moment that will cause more problems.

Because in the end, Palestinians are suffering to a greater extent.

They elected them.
you get the government you deserve or are brainwashed into believing.

CB4 · #20 (**permalink**) 04-17-2009, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Doors

They elected them.
you get the government you deserve or are brainwashed into believing.

The latter choice wasn't any better. Fatah was corrupt under Arafat and destroyed Palestine. Much of the money given did not go to the Palestinians in need. Hamas was the better choice because they acted as a resistance group to protect from them from Israel. In a sense they were the lesser of two evils. As I said Palestinian leadership has failed, and peace will not be achieved under either party.

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