Hi, the endless repetitions in the other subforums got boring, so I figured, I turn to more substantive issues.

My position is pretty much that the Palestinians are the bad guys and Israel has to do some blameworthy stuff to defend itself.
I don't know why I think that, maybe their propaganda got to me first.
Since I'm largely unaffected, I chose to stick with the guy, who blows up a school up with a chopper over a guy that blows himself up in a school.
And if Israel wins nobody gets eradicated, if they lose Israel will cease to exist.

I think Israel holds nations like Germany hostage, for something that happened 60 years ago, to blackmail support, mostly in the form of financial aid, military equipment and political backup.
And to lesser extend the US and other nations through that and other crooked political means.
I think for example Germany should support Israel for the right reasons, and not the wrong reasons, but maybe that is an utopian outlook.

I do not wish to convince anybody, but if you like to point out an inconsistency or error in my thinking, you are welcome and I apreciate it, as I wish to be to the test.
And I can assure you, that my opinion is not set in stone, has altered before, and will be influenced by valid arguments.

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From each according to his ability, to each according to his lack thereof.
109:8!

You've been Misinformed..!!

This is a Palestinian Guy from the middle of the action in Holy Gaza, dude !!

i guess so.

Here we go..,

1stly, this is really a strange weird Logic to see things are done with, to pay your attention, Palestinians Never blown up a school before, and if that happened one day, you need to recall that These are pple who were living a carefree life before 60 Years ago, and Now those who stole their land won't even think of giving them a small state to save their dignity with,

things couldnt be determined that way, and i laughed so loudly when i read your word :
you must be kidding am sure, you say if israel wins, nobody gets eradicated, what kind of mintality you have..bro ?!, last war Palestinians lost 1305 , 968 out were civilians, shall we wait the coming wars to see if there will be an eradicating or not ?!, how about driving out Jerusalem Ppl to eradicate anything related to Palestinians there,


and you say we'r aiming to eliminate israel, if that was right, you need to know why, why would all palestinians stand behind the Violence ?!, you think if the Israelis gave the palestinians something to live with like a small state within 1993-2000, the palestinians would stone the rocks that time then ?!

you pple need to differentiate between Muslims and Palestinians, don't listen to those who say " They all aiming to eliminate israel from the map " that's nuts .

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I'm Not against Peace.., Peace is against me !!

Hamas' Charter, from Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamas#Hamas_Charter

The Hamas charter (or covenant), issued in 1988, calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[52] and the obliteration or nullification of Israel.[53] Specifically, the quotation section that precedes the charter's introduction provides the following quote, attributed to Imam Hassan al-Banna: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it."[54] The quotation has also been translated as follows: "Israel will be established and will stay established until Islam shall nullify it, as it nullified what was before it."[55] The charter's advocacy of an Islamic state in the territory of the Palestinian territories and Israel is stated as an Islamic religious prophesy arising from Hadith, the oral traditions relating to the words and deeds of the Islamic prophet Muhammad.[56] In this regard, the charter states that "renouncing any part of Palestine means renouncing part of the religion; the nationalism of the Islamic Resistance Movement is part of its faith. . ."

Hasbara talking points do tend to have that affect on most Americans....

Being a pretty substantial and complex issue, it's not something that can be turned into a Good Guys vs Bad Guys sort of thing. My sympathies are with both Palestinian and Israeli civilians, who have been treated by the other side as though their lives are worth nothing. Most of all, though, my sympathies lie with the Palestinian people, who have lived under conditions due to the occupation that most of the rest of us couldn't begin to comprehend....


What happens to the Palestinian people if Israel wins? It's sure not going to be good for them. I don't think it's a case of either side winning, but seeing an end to the conflict that brings about a peaceful resolution where both Israelis and Palestinians live in peace in their own states...

While I don't think Germany should be paying reparations to the state of Israel, I do strongly believe that it's right for it to pay reparations to the victims and families of victims...

I doubt many Israelis or the govt itself would agree that it does play the guilt card in the international arena, but it does, though I see much more accusations of anti-semitism thrown at other govts and international bodies, rather than trying to guilt them out over the Holocaust. Israel's problem is that it wants to be treated the same as other states, but wants exceptions made for itself all the time...

I don't make it a good or bad thing, I just see how Israel has the upper hand, Including nuclear weapons, and nobody gets eradicated.
Why cant the West Bank (West-Jordan in some languages) become a part of Jordan?
There would be two countrys and everybody could just hug.

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From each according to his ability, to each according to his lack thereof.
109:8!

why cant palistinians apply for citizenship in isreal.
maybe get a few politicians elected to represent them.
Why do they need their own country?

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When I give food to the poor,they call me a saint.When I ask why the poor have no food,they call me a communist- Hélder Pessoa Câmara
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.-Benjamin Franklin

Simply because the Palestinians have a very different culture, their own character, and never forget they were there, before those are there, why don't you say Israelis apply for the Palestinian citizenship after establishing the Palestine state ?!, even this is nuts am sorry, the palestinians, who are in israel already - 1948 ones -, are suffering by now and they are very few, what would it be like if all palestinians got to there,

you need to come up with something more realistic .

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I'm Not against Peace.., Peace is against me !!

really? what if the second guy doesn't have a "chopper"? what if all he has for smart bombs are sucide bombers?

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EDUCATION, n.
That which discloses to the wise and disguises from the foolish their lack of understanding. ~ A. Bierce

I don't understand why Israel won't just sit tight with their giant military and funding. The reason for their overreaction a few months ago was either that it was a vestige of historical tensions or that they are trying to make a point - that no one (*)(*)(*)(*)s with Israel. Either way, murding hundreds of civilians with no regard for women and children, aid workers, schools and hospitals, etc, etc is not a dignified and praise-worthy way to go about reiterating your right to exist.

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Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known.
-Dr. Carl Sagan

a reasonable question really

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I'm Not against Peace.., Peace is against me !!