I remember those days very much. In fact, i probably had similar debates on FIDONet on my own BBS (one of the biggest in the North SF Bay area in the early 1990's).

And then, just like now, one of the biggest problems is "Revisionist History". Only instead of distorting the truth to make it come out their way, people distory the history. They take a historical situation, and try to use current beliefs, ideals, and people to justify-discredit a historical decision.

Now I am everything that I claim to be, a 40-something Soldier. And yes, my avatar is a picture of me sitting astride a mock-up of the Fat Man atomic bomb. No, it is not there because I am a war monger, it is a classical movie reference.

I have also lived for over a year in Japan. I love the people and the culture, but that also does not make me blind to what they did in WWII, and how they thought of themselves and their place in the world at that time.

Even though the concept of Face is Chinese in origin, the Japanese took it to an extreme. And with both Shinto and Bushido thrown in (and their own concept of being a "Master Race"), you had an people that felt they could do no wrong, could not be defeated, and would die rather then suffer the dishonor of defeat.

I have studied WWII (and specifically the war in the Pacific) for over 20 years, and even talked to a lot of survivors from both sides. I have toured the battlefields, and read more books on the topic then I can ever hope to recall. I have even read books about the Japanese Atomic Bomb Project (including the Ni-Go and F-Go projects), and the still debated claim that they detonated their own bomb in what is now North Korea in August 1945.

So yes, many people try to pass themselves off as something they are not. But be careful trying to say that about everybody, because a great number of them are exactly what they say they are.

And again, it doesn't matter who or what your are. The only thing that matter on the web is what you say or else it's either an appeal to authority which is a logical fallacy or just plain false and doesn't bring anything to the table. The fact that a soldier/ex-military says it's true doesn't make it so.

I also studied WW2 for over 20 years, but I did it from my side of the border and we don't have the same viewpoint on that conflict. I'm sorry to say but the USA suck balls when it comes to history. Everything is tainted by a good spread of patriotism, propaganda and plain racism, oh yes you shouldn't forgot about your view versus the "yellow devils" and "bucktooth, glasses wearing japanese" that predates the attack on Pearl Harbor.

As for the Ni-Go and F-Go project both are based more on fantasy than on fact. All the documentation read more like a conspiracy novel and as a justification after the fact than by reality. It is more like another imaginary "weapon of mass destruction" claim. Maybe this is where GWB got is inspiration. No weapon were ever found and the downing of a B29 over Konan by the russian doesn't prove that a test was done there.

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Note: A boomerang is a stupid way to deliver a bomb

Wile E. Coyote

And do you think the Japanese were any different? Remember, we are talking about one of the most xenophobic cultures on the planet.

Here is an interesting essay, because it talks about the propaganda of both the US and Japan:

https://www.msu.edu/~navarro6/srop.html

Then this interesting little gem, that the Japanese gave to the "newly liberated" nations of their Co-Prosperity Sphere:

http://www.debito.org/?p=3947

And I have to admit, I love the imagery of this one. I have often wondered if it was a precursor to the "Giant Robot" movies that followed:



In short, the Japanese had pretty similar viewpoints of pretty much anybody not Japanese. They were all inferior, the Americans even more so. Because they were all "mongrels", they did not even come from a single culture. And their weakness and inability to fight as "True Warriors" would lead to their being defeated by the Imperial Army and Navy.

I myself question if the test in North Korea ever happened. However, there is ample evidence that Ni-Go and F-Go were real projects. The projects were real, and the Japanese were working hard on their own bomb.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...=5387&start=15
http://www.fortfreedom.org/w08.htm

There have also been several books written on the topic. I have Robert K. Wilcox's "Japan's Secret War", and recommend it. I am actually on my 3rd copy, having lost my previous 2 to unreturned borrowers.

I do not even consider the Soviet downing of an American plane in this, but simply what the Japanese scientists and military planners have said about their intentions. Personally, I think they were at least a year behind the US, and that what the Soviets captured did help their own project.

But I think the claims of some of actually detonating a bomb was more to "save face" then anything else. Especially when you consider they claim to have detonated it between the blasts of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

[quote]Are you telling me that because they were doing it it was ok for you to do it to? Is that all that you have? Come on, this isn't a defense or an excuse. Both your society was usd to demonizing others. A big chunk of your government before Pearl Harbor were bordeline Nazi sympathizer at worst and appeaser at best. Didn't you have law for preservation of the purity of the white race on the book until the 50's or 60's in some of your states (black couldn't marry white).


And you are saying the same thing of muslim and taliban presently.



The russian got most of their knowledge from spy in the US atomic program and with the help of some canadians for the uranium.

The japanese didn't have access to uranim-235. The shipment captured from a german sub (U234) was a by product used as a catalyst in the production of ethanol and not uranium-235. The designation on the crates (U235) was most probably an error on the designation of the submarine and not for U-235 (uranium-235).

The japanese did have some heavy water but they lacked a reliable process to use it to enrich uranium. And by that time they didn't have a delivery system either, their airforce having been decimated.

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Note: A boomerang is a stupid way to deliver a bomb

Wile E. Coyote

What ever happened to the Neutron bomb?? --I'm having trouble finding much info on it. I like it's idea.

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"Learning how not to try and rush the River"

It's a good weapon but it's primary purpose died with the Soviet Union. Still, it has some potential uses in today's geopolitical and military environment. The downside is the amount of time it takes to kill. Modern HE weapons such as the MOAB are more effective and more politically correct.

http://www.nuclearfiles.org/menu/key...utron-bomb.htm

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"We are destined to either destroy the illusions we create, or be destroyed by them."-Michael Saba

One hour doesn't seem that long to me. Plus it kills people, but doesn't tear down the buildings, or leave residual radiation, if I'm correct. but I'm not sure.

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"Learning how not to try and rush the River"

There's blast damage, but it's minimal. One hour can be a lifetime on the battlefield. Would you want to go up against enemy soldiers with a .22 rifle? It's accurate but doesn't kill immediately. Many who die of a .22 wound don't die of being shot, but of the gangrene in the wound a few weeks later. This, of course, doesn't do you any good if they run you through with a bayonet or shoot you before dying.

The ERW is primarily a battlefield weapon against armor, not a city weapon used to depopulate it without doing any damage to the infrastructure or nearby oil facilities. It can be used for this, but I'm not sure of the effectiveness. I'd rather use a bioweapon. Higher casualty rate and zero damage to infrastructure.

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"We are destined to either destroy the illusions we create, or be destroyed by them."-Michael Saba

Didn't the US sign a treaty banning them?
Ah yeah, I remember: DO NOT INSPECT OUR FACILITIES.

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"I consider all foreign cultures to be beneath us." ~ anonymous US poster

"War is Hell" - General William Tecumseh Sherman

True about signing a treaty and I am not advocating their use. However, in a desperate situation and only as a last resort I'd gladly pull the trigger.

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"We are destined to either destroy the illusions we create, or be destroyed by them."-Michael Saba